PE.com: Payton prefers Houston, Minnesota or the Clippers

from a basketball player's standpoint, if he opted out he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the 5.4 mil he's due after his playoff/finals performance.

 

Jeff, I think you have excellent points here, and I would tend to agree if we were being asked to give something up in return for Payton. But I'm not sure that we are. If the asking price is just the TE or Lue, who is likely gone next year anyway, then Payton is simply a one year fix since we couldn't find an adequate solution this year.

I don't think Ward, Sura, Lue, or Gaines is the starting pg solution, but a fall back plan. If Payton doesn't work or becomes a problem child, we'd still have the Ward/Sura option.

 

What is moronic about Malone who has said he and GP are tied to each other being mentioned in any get GP Thread?

If you don't want Malone stay away from GP. This, I believe, is what JVG will do.

What is moronic about thinking R LaF would be an upgrade from Mo? He can defend the 4 or 5, hit the outside shot creating room for Yao as well as TMc slashes to the basket?

If the Rox really did take on GP I would hope the braintrust would force an unbalanced return to balance a deal.

I, for one, am a no love for the Glove guy. If JVG is then I would be surprised but hopeful Ainge would have to give up some goodies to be rid of his latest acquisition.

 

I have heard NOT ONE WORD about LaF's return, or lack thereof, to NBA health. If he's healthy he STILL has great upside with his great height. If not, there is no discussion.

 

This HAS to be the most ignorant post of the week. Did you read ANY of this thread?

 

that's what i'm saying. IF he's healthy, then no doubt he would be considered worth his contract. But his track record of 12,81,78, 78,69,17 doesn't bode too well..especially when he went out for the season last season.

 

Being on-track with this Thread is talking about Payton. Payton coming to Roxland has to have other pieces to make it worthwhile.

I, for one, am not trying to start a trade thread, just discussing merits (demerits) of GP. I think GP and JVG sound like a disaster in the making. GP? Go be a Clipperchummpp...

 

there's no issue between Yao & T-Mac. Shaq & Kobe couldn't get along themselve. Yao & T-Mac both are soft spoken person and not leader-like, I don't mind Payton to be the voice of this team. it's a very bad situation now for the Celtics, maybe we can make them take Mo Taylor's contract for LaFrentz: Taylor+Lue+Spoon for Payton+LaFrentz? salaries matches according to realgm.com but it has to be after Oct. 1 to trade Payton.

Celtics:
Blount, Perkins, Brown, Stewart
Taylor, Jefferson, Spoon
Davis, McCarty
Pierce, Welsch, Allen
Banks, Lue, West

Rockets:
Yao Ming, Mutombo?
LaFrentz, Howard
Jackson, Nachbar
McGrady, Sura
Payton, Ward

we got a very talanted and balanced starting line-up: Youth&Vertan, shot-blocking, size, perimeter shooting, passing, experience, ... and we'd probably one of the deepest team with Mutombo, Juwan Howard, and Sura on the bench. Payton's contract ends next year so there's isn't alot of risk. go for it CD, please!

 

Few things to note:

Payton and Fisher got lit up by every opposing PG, right?

Well guess what; we were pursuing Fisher. And Brent Barry, a pretty crappy defender in his own right. Payton knows how to force his man into help zones and can put on full court pressure and trap on the baseline. He's a better defensize PF than any of the guys on our team currently.

Number two, though the parts are similar, the system is different. GP would get more help rotations on D (when was the last time Shaq showed on a pick and roll? 1996?). Gary was a great defender in Seattle two years ago, but a bad one in Milwaukee the same year. Why? Bad rotations! Gary would also have more freedom on offense; he'd be allowed to push the ball upcourt, to run when the oppurtunity presented itself, to post up at will (JVG LOVES to post up his guards).

GP would be better than TLue, Better than Ward, better than D.Jones, better than James, better than Fisher... Not as good as Barry, but hey. Rockets should push hard to get him.

 

Keep Payton and his prima-donna a$$ as far away from Yao Ming as possible. That means, don't let him pollute the Rockets with his self-serving me me me attitude. We just finished trading one point guard who has a love affair with the ball. Why would we waste our time getting another one who may even have more attitude problems than the one we just dealt?

 

haha... hahaha... hahaha... hahaha omg that is the funniest thing i read all day. omg hahahahahaha. please read before you post. read the the thread, read espn, read the newspaper, read SOMETHING.

 

You really don't think our PG situations that bad?

I don't think we have one adequate starting PG. Sura? The one good team that he has been one didn't play him and traded him halfway through the season. Ward? Maybe 5 years ago. Lue? Career backup. Gaines? I actually like Gaines(Especially at Cincinatti), but he won't be doing much for us for at least a little while.

Worst-case scenario, we cut him halfway through the year, and all we give up was Lue or something similar.

 

Summary:

(-) Jerk, slowing, potential cancer, history as Rocket "enemy", old

(+) Historically great defender, good fg %, good creator, much better than what the Rockets currently have, only a one-year contract

Opinion:

I'd do it for Weatherspoon. I'd probably do it for the TE or Lue and part of the TE. I'd probably do some deal where we would trade Mo Taylor for Payton and some other expiring contract.

I'd not want to give up draft picks or anything of serious value.

 

I read it all, it was my comprehension that failed me.

 

I think you have your players flip flopped. It is Payton who said: "
"If they don't sign Karl [Malone] back, then I'll probably get up out of here," Payton told the paper. "They're going to buy me out or trade me, or something. If Karl don't come back, I ain't coming back." Source

I was unable to find a Malone quote stating he was tied to Payton. Source please? More recent quotes have placed him considering San Antonio and Miami, and I am yet to see Malone even mentioned with Boston after they acquired Payton.
----
mogrod- Your deal does not work. In two separate transactions, MoT and Michael Stewart's salaries are too far apart.
----

As far as the thought of Lafrentz. Salary wise, MoT for Raef would work straight up. But Raef makes even more than Mo, and has 2 more years on his contract. If Boston is eager to cut that commitment by two years, it could be possible, and they do have Blount, and Perkins to man the 5 slot along with Yogi Stewart Ernest Brown.

I would maybe consider something like Lue/TE for Payton, and MoT/Spoon for Raef/Stewart. Lue and Payton are both expiring contracts, cancelling each other out. Raef has 2 more years than Mo, and Spoon has 1 more year than Stewart. It'd depend on Boston's perspective of Raef. They cut 3.2 mill in salary with these trades.

Hard Rock- The above deal makes a lot more sense than your proposed Lue/MoT/Spoon for Payton/Raef because:
a.) It can be done immediately. You don't want Payton to stir up more problems in the meantime sitting around. 2 months is a pretty long time.
b.) Your deal increases Boston payroll. They acquired Payton for cap relief type purposes. Your deal would send them to around $61.5 mill. in payroll.
c.) Your deal puts the guaranteed contracts of Boston to 16. They'd have to cut guaranteed money, which hurts even more. In my proposal, Boston reduces salary committment by 3.2 mill, bringing them to $56m-ish and also holds their roster steady at 15.

Yao/Stewart/(Raef)
Howard/Raef
JJ/Boki/Griffin
TMac/Pike/Gaines
Payton/Sura/Ward

Pike/Griffin can be moved for a 4/5. Or by keeping Pike, you make up for losing a shooter in Lue.

Blount/Perkins/Brown
Taylor/Jefferson/Spoon
Davis/McCarty/Fox
Pierce/Allen/Welsch
Lue/Banks/West

Pretty solid, balanced roster.

I think ultimately, if we do land Payton, it would be a simple 1 for 1 type swap.

 

I would take Payton for one season, for the expiring contract. Plus, Payton would bring some toughness to this roster that this current group is sorely lacking. I don't think he really had chemistry problems in L.A. as much as he had problems with the offense.

 

And that's probably what he's holding out for.

Would anyone give up a future #1 pick in the deal, if it was highly conditionalized? In other words, top 20 protected, & dropping down one spot each subsequent year, to top 15 protected in the next 5 years, with two future 2nd round picks being awarded in the 6th year, if the pick stays below the protection, during the 5 years. We could also put a condition of us getting their 2nd round pick when they get our 1st round pick.

Would you do it? I would. If CD is able to add Payton/Mutombo, while just giving up Piatkowski/Lue/TE/future #1 pick, I'd have to think he'd be in line for Executive of the Year".

This lineup would be solid:

C: Yao/Mutombo
PF: Howard/Taylor/Spoon
SF: McGrady/Nachbar/Griffin
SG: JJ/Sura/Griffin/Gaines
PG: Payton/Ward/Sura/Gaines

However, I would like to see one more legitimate center in reserve.

 

Very nice numbers. I hope he stays. But if the Celts insisted on him, I'd have to pause - strange as that sounds.

Ward, I'd give up in a heartbeat but since he was a FA, I guess we won't be trading him anytime soon. Spoon for Payton would be nice.

 

Here is what I propose

MoT for Lafrentz
Spoon for Payton

Why would Boston do it?

Lafrentz+Payton= 55+5=60M in contracts
MoT+Spoon=28+12=40M in contracts

This is a good oppurtunity for them to dump Lafrentz and his 5 yrs 55M contract along with a disgruntled Payton who would not suit for them anyway, and get a relatively shorter contract and a decent big guy in MoT. They would have to eat up Spoon's contract.

Why would Houston do it ?

Payton is still by far a much better PG than anyone on Rockets roster and is a natural leader. Salary, notwithstanding Lafrentz is the perfect 4/5 guy to compliment Yao and Howard. He can hit the outside shot, rebound and block shots.

Next we can ship Pike to Chicago for Othella Harrington and his expiring contarct and insurance if one of our big guys goes down with an injury. Alternatively, if Chicago agrees to take-Pike/A.griffin/Gaines for Mutombo then it will be even better.

What if Payton does not fit in the system? Well then as per his wish we can trade him to Clippers and get a decent trade exception.

In nutshell, despite taking Lafrentz's rediculous contract Rockets will not be in the LT zone and next year will be able to shave 8-10 M in salary. And yes, will become a legitimate contender.