PE.com: Payton prefers Houston, Minnesota or the Clippers

One of the Rockets biggest weaknesses last year was having a pass first PG that could push the ball up the floor. I know Van Gundy's system doesn't call for much up-tempo game, but you just have to have the ability to run when the time comes.

Gary Payton could be a pass-first PG, I have no doubt about that...however, Tyronn Lue is probably the quickest player on the team right now and he and T-Mac are the only guys that can really run a successful fast break (possibly Sura). Trading Lue for Payton severely limits the Rockets to a half-court only offense.

What I'm saying is that we need a little speed in the backcourt for running the break and full-court defense, and Gary Payton and Charlie Ward probably run about a 5.0 forty-yard dash.

 

Payton's a complete non-factor these days. In the playoffs he couldn't throw the ball into the ocean. He couldn't stay in front of guys on defense. Not to mention his attitude absolutely stunk.

 

Payton is also a much better player than Derek Fisher. Yet, for some reason the Lakers always seem to play better with Fisher on the floor than Payton.

 

Maybe because fisher could shoot 3s and they struggled to keep leads during games?

 

Great PG(s)




Good PG(s)




Average PG(s)

X <--------------------------- We are Here.


Bad PG(s)

 

Just what we need, another questionable shooter.

no thanks. We need players that stretch the defense.

New Jack, the reason the Lakers played better with fisher on the court was because Fisher is a BETTER player at this time. There is your "some reason" right there.

 

chemistry means NOTHING

Rocket River
but . .. he is still the same payton from the ever HATED
payton/mcmillan/kemp settle teams. . . NEVER in a rocket uniform

This would be like. . getting starks/karla or something

 

Like this one better...

To paraphrase Jamie Fox, host of the ESPYs:

"The Glove?! You had a hole in that son of a b**ch this year didn't ya'?!

LOL!

 

It all should come down to telling GP upfront what the deal is:

- JVG is unquestioningly running the show...what he says is final (even if it means dropping your whiny ass midseason).

- Yao and Tmac are the franchise...any thoughts of being more than a solid role player will be checked at the door.

- If you help us accomplish what we are trying to (WCF?), we will reward you next year.

If he agrees to these terms upfront, Lue and a 2nd rounder is a done deal.

Welcome aboard.

 

I'd say Payton is still a better individual player. Fisher was just the better complement to Shaq and Kobe.

And in Lue, we have a Derek Fisher clone.

 

Now this really interests me. If Raef is healthy, then he's a much better option for this team than Mo, who brings some of the same skills as J. Howard to the table. Raef could backup the 4 and 5, is taller, a better defender, and a good weakside shot blocker.

Would Boston do this? They haven't gotten much out of Raef since the Dallas trade and he, like Taylor, has a huge contract. It would get them out from under the deal 2 years earlier, however, and Taylor's low-post offense might fit better with Blount's shot blocking and defense.

In a separate but related deal, Payton for some combination of Lue, TE, and/or Griffin.

I'd do the Payton deal on its own as well, but Xiki's suggestion has a lot of merit IMHO. From the Rocket's perspective, it really depends on Raef's health. Anyone have an update on this?

I'm not really interested in Banks.

 

If this goes through I wonder how much negotiating the Rockets can do. I mean Payton, as of right now, is damaged goods. His playoff preformance was terrible where he didn't even play in the fourth quarter (performance or dislike from Phil?). His reputation is shot right now because of the complaining he did in LA and now this situation with Boston. Wasn't the Celtics interested in Mo Taylor last year? Could we possible be able to swing a deal where we can rid ourselves of his contract?

What about:

Houston trades:
PG Tyronn Lue (10.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.2 apg in 30.7 minutes)
PF Maurice Taylor (11.5 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 27.8 minutes)

Houston receives:
PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes)
C Michael Stewart (0.5 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.0 apg in 5.9 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -6.9 ppg, -2.2 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

Boston trades:
PG Gary Payton (14.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 5.5 apg in 34.5 minutes)
C Michael Stewart (0.5 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.0 apg in 5.9 minutes)

Boston receives:
PG Tyronn Lue (10.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.2 apg in 76 games)
PF Maurice Taylor (11.5 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 1.4 apg in 75 games)

Change in team outlook: +6.9 ppg, +2.2 rpg, and +0.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

I know that it would have to be two seperate trades to work because of the players involved status, and maybe part of the TE would maybe be used. Boston can throw in that 2nd Rounder that they were giving to LA. Wouldn't this work?

 

I completely agree. I would LOVE it of the Rockets were to pull off xixi's trade idea! Raef's contract is horrible and runs just as long or longer than Howard's, but you got a guy who is alot younger and more versatile. If he can stay healthy, he would be HUGE as a bench guy or maybe even the starting 4 in the future!

 

If we lose Payton and get Lue, we are losing a lot of 3-pt shooting from last year.

Pike won't play, Lue will be gone... The only 3-pt specialists would be JJ and Ward, which isn't enough. Sura would play all the backup 2 minutes, and Boki all the backup 3 minutes. Pike sits or gets traded to Chicago.

However, if we get Lafrentz back in this deal, I would be in. Lafrentz would be terriffic in a 3-man rotation with Yao and Juwan Howard.

MoT/Lue/Spoon

for

Payton/Lafrentz

We would need to sign a 3rd C but that's it. Lafrentz would be overpaid, but there will always be people willing to take a C who can score, rebound and block shots.

 

LaFrentz has 5 year and $55M left on his contract. NO FREAKING WAY!

Mogrod, GP plays for LA not Boston so that trade won't work.

 

(repost from the Ward/Sura thread)
"We have confidence in anybody out there on the court," McGrady said. "They doubled up and Ty was the open guy. He has ice water in his veins; he's not afraid to take those big shots."

I think having someone who TMac has played with AND trusts enough to pass to is important.

Here's how Lue fared last year vs. the teams in our new division

vs DAL: 2 games, 17.5 ppg, 54% fg, 3.0 apg > 1.0 tpg, 2.0 spg
vs SAS: 2 games, 10.5 ppg, 57% fg, 1.5 apg > 0.5 tpg, 0.0 spg
vs NOH: 4 games, 12.3 ppg, 57% fg, 4.3 apg > 2.8 tpg, 0.8 spg
vs MEM: 2 games, 11.5 ppg, 48% fg, 7.0 apg > 1.5 tpg, 0.5 spg

 

If you could swap Taylor and parts for LaFrentz, even taking his contract into consideration, that's a deal I would do. LaFrentz's shotblocking and 3pt shooting off the bench in combination with Yao and Howard's rare skillsets would make this frontcourt incredibly versatile. LaFrentz is a guy who I've always liked - it's just that he's a mental midget. He's been expected to be the primary big man everywhere he's been and he's just not that good. In Denver, Dallas specifically, and now Boston. In Dallas, he was brought in as the savior big man to all of the Mavericks' interior defense and rebounding woes and just couldn't live up to the pressure. He's no star. And then of course Cuban signed him to that ridiculous deal. This is a similar situation as Juwon Howard - you think this guy sucks because he is/was vastly overpaid. However, this is a very good player and can be a major contributor on a good team, especially if he doesn't have to be the primary big man. Mo Taylor and Juwon Howard are redundant. If you can get the taller, younger, shotblocker LaFrentz, he can come in off the bench and spread the defense with his shooting. I'de do this deal, I think Boston would, but I don't think CD would want to take on that contract. I'de also go ahead and pursue the Mutombo trade if you could complete this. You can never have too many shotblockers, and you also get out from under Pike's and AG's deals a year earlier.

I think a 4 man rotation of Yao, Howard, LaFrentz, and Mutombo is the best in the Western Conference.

 

I think my biggest question is why bother with Payton for one season? Do we honestly think we have a shot at the title this year if we acquire him? Is he the final piece to the puzzle?

If not, what is the point of bringing him in for one season just to have him leave next season?

Payton is the right guy if you need one more guy to put you over the edge. Payton is the right guy if you have a young point guard who needs seasoning before taking over the reins. Payton is the right guy if taking on his expiring contract means additional cap space for you next summer so you can pursue free agents.

None of those situations applies to the Rockets. So, if he isn't to put us over the top, isn't here to train a youngster and isn't here to bring us cap space in the offseason, what exactly is the reason for having him here especially given his tendency to be a bit of a problem child?

 

After 4 pages, the only two things I find moronic is:

-someone mentioning bringing in Malone

-someone thinking Raef would be a good pick up


In all honesty, having Gary Payton is NOT bad.

1. Post-up game. The dude still has the post up game and he's as good as it when compared to any other PG that uses this move (i.e. Cassell). Sure he's not as quick as he was when he was in Seattle but he sure ain't no Mark Jackson.

2. A legitimate 3rd or 4th scoring option. I pray that Yao and TMac won't go down because of fatigue and/or injuries, but IF they do, Payton can be capable to bare some of the load. He did score 15 ppg for the Lakers last year when he wasn't even given plays nor was he a focal point of their offense (Triangle = PG offense killer)

3. Defense. You might scoff at it but how could Payton be effective when Shaq or any of their bigs didn't move at all when the other team were running Pick and Roll all day? Yao ain't no gazelle, but he has shown he has more footwork laterally on D than Shaq ever did.

4. PG, PG, PG...he's a point guard and is still a good one at that. Elite? Not even. Great? Not anymore. Better than Ward and Lue? Do I even have to ask? He's tall, still can defend and can still pass.

As hardheaded as it might seems, I think GP DOES know that he can't be THE MAN anymore (why else did he sign with the Lakers?) and I think if he knows and believes that, he can still be a good role player with two stars (a grumpy GP in LA was efficient..just look at his stats). Now, put him in a non-triangle system with two stars and see what happens. I'm pretty sure he and JVG would butt heads now and then, but GP's basketball IQ overshadows Francis' any day of the week.

oh yea

5. He's signed on for 5.4 mil for his next, and last, season. Experiment. We should ALL know that getting to the Finals is going to be hard in the west and so why not see what GP can do. If he does well, we'll try to keep him for a fair contract. If not, just drop him, sign Damon Stoudamire or whomever after next season. Lest we forget, we would still have Ward and Sura under contract.

 

I dont Know whats he is talking about, i he did not want anything to do with LA or their policies then he should have opt out and sign with somebody else instead of staying .