great post Jeff! I think it's a combination everything but only to a certain degree IMO...What it really boils down to is our superstars believing in JVG's system and TRUSTING his teammates. Last year we have clicks who are great friends off the court but don't play off of each other very well on. We have stars who do not pass it to open teammates because they do not have any trust in them. Because of this the chemistry never peaked and we've never really played as 1 unit for the last 4 or 5 years. This year, we have a coachable superstar who believed in the system and truly believe in teammates. Our role players are very well defined because of this. When you pass to open teammates and play the game it's supposed to be played, chemistry develops on the court. When role players feel like they are a part of something and not just standing around watching people do their thing, they start to believe in each other and play as one. Once superstars trust their teammate and system, there is a huge positive domino effect that occurs and that's how good teams turn great. On a side note, the reason why we have threads like these is really in response to the irrational hating of JVG earlier in the year. If it wasn't for the hating, there wouldn't be threads like this.
Except we're seeing a drop off of D from earlier in the season too. While its true that Strickland and Barry weren't here at the beginning of the season the fact the Rox are adapted to playing fast moving O while playing more porous D and have players who are possibly unable to play stronger D,, goes against nearly everything that JVG has done previously.
Jeff; As I've said in my posts it takes the players and the coaches to make a good team and I think we're seeing that now. That said I think JVG has made the move to evolve how the Rox play to the strength of his players. In turn the players trust the coach and their teammates because they feel that the coach is scheming to their strengths rather than trying to mold them into his own bball ideology. That JVG can do this does have a lot to do with the trades to build a team of players he feels comfortable and can trust in. As we saw with the mid-90's Rox, last year's Pistons and even the Phil Jackson championship Lakers, chemistry is more important than talent in successful b-ball. If the coach isn't comfortable with the players he's not going to be willing to trust them enough to play in a way different than what he likes. In turn the players aren't going to feel comfortable in the coach's system.
Right now, I believe JVG is the second best (and likely smartest) coach in the NBA. Very underrated as well. 1. Larry Brown 2. JVG 3. Popovich 4. Carlisle 5. Adelman 6. SVG 7. Mike "The Czar" Fratelo
Players adapting to his b-ball philosophy VS coaching evolution? Actually it's a bit of both. The players aren't just coming into JVG system and just "doing what they want." No, they are coming into this team and accepting the philosophy or game plan of what JVG wants done. That's the known system that *all* the players must have. Now, on the other side, JVG will notice what his players can/and can't do. As time goes on, he starts to utilize those skill into this game plan. If that means letting TMac drive more or take more spot up jumpers....so be it. As long as he has proven that he can consistently hit those shots. Same with Sura. He's has shown that he can do certain things. Thus, JVG allows those skills to materialize on the court...as long as Sura doesn't go "wild." Over-all Sura IS following the game plan. Ok, your question about defense vs offense. Think about it like this. If you have a team that CAN score 100, and that same team CAN hold opponents around 90. As a coach, you have a lot of flexibility. You don't have to depend on just your offense. You don't have to depend on just your defense. There's a balance. I mean, a 110 - 100 is win, just like 95-85 is a win. Your team is capable of playing a complete game, based on the talent and skill you have. That team just plays....and you see what you get. If JVG thinks that the defense needs to be ratcheted up, he'll say so during a timeout. If the offense is looking stagnate, he'll say so in during the timeout. Those adjustments happen along the game. It's not like JVG say, "Hey guys, today we are defense. Tomorrow we are offense." No, that team tries to just play their best! And God forbid....if TMac/Yao were NOT on the team, well, you just have to go out and give it your best. And if that "best" happens to be 85 pts. Well, so be it. That's all that team can muster. Would you call that "depending on defense?" Damn skippy! Because it's not like you are going to be scoring a lot of points without TMac/Yao. You do you best with what you have. In reality, JVG would LOVE IT if his team had the ***energy*** to go out and score 110, BUT ALSO hold their opponents below 90. But that's not how it works. Your team is capable of just winning, how ever that may be, sometimes 100 - 90, sometimes 80 - 70, sometimes, 95 - 85. Sometimes 78-64. Sometimes 93-92....whatever it takes. Now, you said this above..."We're playing well overall but we're not as good of a defensive team as we were before. The difference is our offense is so much better that we can win on offense rather than D which has been the hallmark of JVG teams." I have no problem with that statement...but I hope you aren't saying that we've forgotten how to play D? No. That's not the case. It's that we have players that CAN put up big numbers and still play D. Both. The extra points gives more flexibility as a coach. More leeway as a team. Yes, it would be nice if we still had Cato's defense. But over-all I think our team (holding teams to 90ppg on defense) is pretty good. That hasn't faltered. Have you noticed that during blowouts....sometimes a team will be up by 17 and let up a bit at the last 2 minutes of a game? The score was 97-80 late...but ends up being 110 - 96 because we had garbage minutes. The majority of the game we did hold them below 90. It's just that the garbage minutes created a closer game than it really was. Does that mean that we *did not play D?" I think not. You are just looking at the score, and not our total game play. Now, don't forget that if TMac was not on our team...we would not have the flexibility that we have today. Our offense production would drop! And if that was to happen, then we'd have to depend more on defense because a lot of our team's scoring ability would vanish. The players you have matter. But watch those games. We still play hard nosed D even if we have a higher scoring game. The players evolve into the "system" that the coach puts on the floor. That "system" can evolve over time based on what he see his players are capable of. Again, you are assuming that the players are just running around on the court like chickens with their head cut off....no, they have bought into a system that has rules; a known game plan; philosophy. Those rules are adjusted a bit here and there based on what players you have, what they can do, what they have done....That's the total evolution of coaching and player feedback. It's a cycle.
Sishir Chang, you are assuming that a coach will continue to just "force his players" to play a certain "bball ideology" regardless of the skills, talents, and smarts you players have shown. Why would you think this? I know why. You got it in your head, that JVG's "bball ideology" is unchanging, unmoving, non-flexible. It's a perception that has burned itself into YOUR head...and you wont let it go. But people don't work like that (JVG; he has a brain, ya know?). He can learn and make adjustment. He has TMac and Yao and is building off their skills. Now, while it's true that JVG might not trust certain type of players (SF). But how can you blame him for that if that player doesn't show improvement? Trust is earned. And when that player has shown that he can do more, then that trust increases. Lets not forget that Tmac himself was defering to Yao willingly; partially because that was the game plan (which a player should follow) and partially because TMac wanted to shed the "selfish" image. Not that JVG was "holding TMac back." I remember thinking back when we traded for Tmac. I thought to myself, "Man! JVG is going to be in heaven when he realizes what type of scoring machine he has inherited!" This is the FIRST time that JVG has had a player of this caliber. EVER!
That's because he has more flexibility to win. You can only do with what tools you have. And if you don't have those weapons (TMac, Sura, Yao, etc...). You can't just get up one day and decide, "Ya know, today I want to out and score 123 today. I don't have TMac and Sura anymore. But hey! So, what!? I'll just pull those points out of my butt." So, when you say, "goes against nearly everything that JVG has done previously" that because what you think "previously" he wasn't changing, or wasn't learning, or wasn't evolving. He had to go through those things. It was the evolution of buiding a team. Yes, it's true that our team is playing different now than it was playing previously. But you are taking the word "previously" and thinking that it was set in stone! He had to do what he had to do AT THAT TIME with the players he had, trying to figure out how to fit them into a team, trying to figure out what their strengths and weaknesses were....know what I mean? It was a progression in time. Not a set-in-stone situation. Merely pointing out that it's different now compared to before and then somehow pretending that he changed against his will is completely ignoring the situations back then compared to now. It's like you wanted JVG change, then you go on to blame him for him changing. What we have today is a coach that has both offensive and defensive weapson at his disposal. And he's utilizing them both. This was the best thing to happen to both TMac and JVG.
It had to be said that JVG's start was not at all promising. He hired Charlie Ward the virtue of which is still clear to noone. Further he put a lot of pressure on Yao, (who miserable because of all the trades)both in his slow half court/low post gameplan, which he clung to stubbornly, and by shouting at him when he turned it over. When a certain member of this bulletin board made his feelings clear, JVG clearly felt the writing on the wall. He really seems to have listened to others and rethought everything. They did some great trades, surely a combination of perspicacity and luck. And - yes- wanting to do the right thing by Boki, who needs his minutes. Credit to him for responding in this way to perhaps the biggest challenge of his life (since if he had been fired, that would probably have been it for him in the NBA). I hope I could respond like that to adversity.
Great posts DavidS. I will have to re-read them again in order to fully digest them For the unassuming, read and learn from Nick and DavidS' posts....... and stop being stubborn.
I agree. All the credit DOES NOT go to JVG either. He wouldn't be able to do the things he doing without TMac/Yao and Sura. It's a team effort. The coaches job is to put a system on the court that fits the players into as a unit. It's the players job to buy into that system. Everyone has to be on the same page. Then, small adjustments will happen along the way from both sides throughout the season, games and play-offs.
Every T-Mac interview I have seen on local and national t.v. (Jim Rome's show, ESPN NBA crew, Local Fox Sports Net...), he has admitted and mentioned that after the slow start JVG changed his philosophy to accomodate his "skills" b/c he felt he was deferring to Yao too much and Yao was doing the same to him. He said that he spoke with JVG to voice his concerns and they agreed to meet in the middle and compromise. You done stroking yourself yet??? It looks like you are the one living in your own world b/c you see yourself as this genius. Legend in your own mind indeed. You should change your name to Nostradamus as you are so in tuned with what will happen. Are we going to win the title? You can't tell me you foresaw the Rox playing 26-10 in their last 36, no way with the kind of basketball they were playing early on in the season. Give me a break.
The title of the thread sounds like he's dead, while I do not like his coaching style, I wish him no harm, can't we call it the Van Gundy is aight' Forum?!
Mcgrady deferring to Yao had nothing to do with JVG. JVG didn't change any philosophy. There was never any philosophy that was responsible for Mcgrady wanting to defer to Yao and the rest of his teammates. That was Mcgrady wanting to be unselfish. That was Mcgrady wanting to break that ridiculous label of Me-Mac they tagged him with in Orlando. That had nothing to do with JVG holding him back and everything to do with Mcgrady holding himself back.
I was referring to whoever it was who was shouting FIRE JVG at the toyota centre. Rockets03? That was definitely aroudn the lowpoint. JVG acknowledged the booing. Wasnt his discussion with Tmac shortly after that. I am not saying the booing was a key episode but it definitely was an episode. I do exaggerate in my posts occasionally.
Hee Hee! Change this. Do that. He is still the same grumpy great coach I saw around here for 7 years.
That's stating the obvious. Paying respect to JVG is just an opportunity to say that he is doing a good job coaching as opposed to Fire Gundy. Give him his props for the coaching side of the equation. He's actually done an excellent job with this team. That's also stating the obvious.
