F*ck efficient markets and F*ck ticket scalpers. I hate them and am glad somebody is starting to notice and take a stand... good for the Patriots and I hope every team in every sport, as well as every band that goes on tour finds a way to let the real fans enjoy a game or concert without ticket brokers snatching up every ticket or auction sites like stubhub or ebay or craigslist selling tickets for more than face value... it is against ebay and craigslist policy, according to their rules, but everybody does it... no excuses how the laws are outdated or how complaing about it is useless... every customer should have an equal right to their favorite event without having to deal with scalpers
I agree. I don't have kids but it is really disgusting that Hannah Montana tickets sell out in 3 minutes and are on eBay for 100 dollars each for nosebleeds the next day.
That's just silly. Then get in line early and buy the tickets from the primary sellers (Patriots or whatever) for the face value price. If they have a problem with brokers getting too many tickets they will later have available for resale, then it is THEIR problem (Patriots) that they are unable to efficiently control their distribution channels. But the "equal right to their favorite event" part is just silly...sounds rather communist. If you are late, and still want a ticket, you pay the market price at the time you want the ticket.
Yeah, how about the bands offering everyone to just come in for free... oh, that doesn't work? Capacity is limited? More people want to see the event than there is space? Oh...but aren't they ALL real fans? Now how do you decide who gets a right to go to the event and who doesn't? A lottery? Low-income families and single mothers first? Hmm? Oh, a novel idea - demand exceeds supply, so the highest bidder will end up being able to go. Also, neither stubhub nor viagogo nor ebay "sell tickets" - they are just marketplaces. Every customer does have an equal right. But there are more customers who want to go than there is space. Now you tell me a "fair" way to decide who gets to go. Well?
Who sets the market? The scalpers? There are some events for which the scalpers cannot sell all that they have at their price, and some tickets go unused. That is ok for the scalpers, because they have made a huge profit on what they have already sold. It never ceases to amaze me how many events are sold out in minutes, but scalpers have scores of tickets available immediately at 3 or 4 times face. It isn't that surprising for music, etc, where Clear Channel controls so much of it. They just let the scalpers in line first to buy however many they want, and then they sell to the few who can get in next. It's crap. Pure crap.
But companies like stubhub and viagogo actually work against the shady scalpers in front of the stadium - because they create an efficient market where exactly what you describe does not happen, because everyone involved would have an interest in selling even the last tickets. In fact, companies like stubhub or viagogo do the Patriots (or Rockets or...) a favor, because by creating an efficient market where people can buy from the comfort of their home and where people can actually compare prices online (which you cannot really do when dealing with scalpers in front of the stadium under time pressure), more seats end up being filled (remember all those empty seats at Rockets games for tickets which were actually sold in the primary market but not used?!) - and more butts in seats means more concession sales for the event. But that's not stubhub's or viagogo's fault - that would be the fault of the primary sellers because they do not control their distribution channels efficiently (e.g., by imposing and effectively enforcing limits on how many tickets an individual can buy at one time).
funny, I had already predicted that you would compare me to a communist for demanding a fair shot at getting tickets... you are right, I am a communist against companies who hold a monoply on the ticket sales... i am coming from an avid concertgoers standpoint... I DO get in line early, i DO get the pre-sale passwords and i DO get shut out at 10:01 on a presale that started at 10:00 AM so how is it fair that ticket brokers and scalpers are buying up 8 tickets a time on multiple accounts and then immediately listing them for double the face value... capitalist pigs!!!!
I didn't mean to call you a communist - I said it "sounds communist". No offense intended. I can understand your frustration with the scalpers - but I don't think you should be angry at the secondary marketplaces - the secondary market always existed and will always exist - they just make it more efficient and transparent and safer. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at the primary sellers who don't control their distribution channels because they don't care as long as they get their money - and then later they go and sue a marketplace to pretend they do care about the fans.
you damn right about that. My friend's kid LOVES Hannah Montana (i guess the way i like Anna Kournikova). I was at toyotacentertix to buy Hannah Montana, and it was already gone within 10:04. Atleast I think 10:04 because toyotacentertix.com was a pos. I think I might hang around Toyota Center before the show to see if anyone will sell it for less or at face value.
Can someone explain to me why a band like Hannah Montana or the Patroits sell tickets below market value? Wouldn't scalpers just disappear if they can't make a profit off the secondary market? If a $100 ticket can fetch $1000 online, why blame the people who realize there's a discrepancy between between market value of an item vs. the price it's sold at? I honestly fail to understand this. I agree with Sir Jackie Chiles's post 100%. This is just BS on the part of the Patriots.
Because when these people agreed to buy season tickets, they agreed that they wouldn't sell them for a profit. That is the rule, so IMO, the court was right in taking the Pats side on this one. Should they revisit the issue of season ticket holders agreeing to that? Possibly, but they already agreed to it when they bought the tickets so they are violating the terms. The only thing it says the Pats will do is revoke their season tickets, nothing more.
i didnt write the article.... but I'll have to use TicketExchange... it seems like a fair way to get face value tickets, as I just found listings for Van Halen for sale by fans under face value my point is the system is flawed, there are cheatars out there and the average fans are the ones last in line... but lawsuits like this one (Patriots) and others in the country (Hannah Montana) are changing the flawed system... why would anyone defend a system in which individuals and companies take away the fair advantage of a pre-sale? and going back to a previous question, do you really think that re-sellers and brokers are REAL fans?
yeah i dont like scalpers/agency doing things like this for the rockets lakers season opener i had 4 different presale codes and logged into the presale the minute they went on sale and i couldnt buy 3 tickets in a row (max was 4 tickets), heck i couldnt buy 2 tickets in a row. The only way I would have been able to buy a ticket for the game legit was if i used the code and bought a single ticket. i used two different computers with different codes at work to try to get 3 tickets neither of them worked saying that there was no matching seats with my criteria. I tried no price limit, no seat preference and still got the same thing. i go online and see ticket brokers in the area have 2-4 seats in a row in multiple different places. seats that were 80 or 100 bucks via the presale were selling for over 200 from the brokers. its ridiculous i got "lucky" and found a season ticket owner on craigslist selling their tickets for 200 apiece, that were face value at 140. (though for marquee teams he was doing 320) stubhub is just as bad, you wont be able to stop scalpers selling tickets at the arena of course, but i wish they would somehow stop the ticket brokers from getting all the tickets and figure out a way from stopping them from hammering the servers right away and snatching everything up. i'm upset yeah like what if i ended up paying 140 for nosebleeds when i see on ticket the face value is like 40 bucks? and then knowing that if i was allowed to buy seats legit like i tried the same 140 could have meant somewhere in the lower bowl in single digit row. i hate the pats with a passion but i do agree with what they're doing here...but i think they need to attack the ticket brokers a lot more rather than a season ticket holder who may sell 1-2 games because he cant make it etc. (though that is a lot for a football season, not so much basketball)
I think the point is that places like StubHub actually provide an alternative to ticket scalpers and generally *lower* the price of tickets. Whereas ticket scalpers have no incentive to sell all their tickets and would prefer to just sell some at a higher price, individuals selling on StubHub compete to get rid of their ticket and get what they can from it. So by putting sellers in a competitive marketplace and giving the buyer the option to see all prices from all sellers, you lower the price. Shutting down something like StubHub is just going to make the situation that much worse. If you have a ticket at $50 and a stadium that holds 50,000 people but demand from 100,000 people at that price, a black market is going to form one way or another. The best way for consumers to wade through the black market is to make all the price information available (ie, StubHub or EBay). The solution to your issue is to more effectively prevent scalpers from buying tickets at face value. How to do that, I'm not really sure.
I didn't bother catching up on this thread, but I'll say that it's in the best interest of the performer/sports team/etc that regular fans get tickets over scalpers. You're average fan will buy merchandise, watch you on tv, etc, while scalpers want nothing to do w/ you. The money they make does not go back to you. But true fans who frequent events are more likely to plunk down more money in the future. In an ideal world the performers/teams would sell their tickets at an auction value. Of course they can't, otherwise they will alienate said true fans who are the main reason they are successful in the first place.
I actually like Stub Hub i get most of my rockets tickets from there it comes out pretty cheap for me for rockets games actually the game i went to on thursday i got the tickets from stub hub Section 115 a total of about $28 each ticket
realize, I'm not mad at Stubhub or E-Bay, I am fully aware they are just the marketplace for selling tickets, and some people are honesly trying to unload tickets that they have no use for... I am genuinely upset and concerned about ticket scalpers and ticket brokers. those that snatch up bundles of tickets and re-sell them at double the face value... these are the people that are ruining it for everyone else, taking away the chances of a real fan to simply go online and purchase a ticket from ticketmaster... look at what's going on in the World Series... this is a problem that many are starting to realize needs to be addressed! http://dailycamera.com/news/2007/oct/22/stuck-online-trying-get-rockies-tickets-stick-it-o/
