Patrick Lyoya Shooting by Grand Rapids Police Officer

In the eyes of PDs, they think a taser is as deadly as a gun and warrants lethal force.

 

Hmm... that's an interesting thought. So when the police use tasers on people, do they view that as using deadly force too?

 

This is a sad thing to say.

 

Its the truth. People who physically struggle with a police officer, to the point of trying to take their weapon, should be put down as they are not fit for society. I don’t care about your silly comment that its “sad”. Its a sad world bro. Dont try to kill cops.

 

Im amazed at how incredibly stupid some of you are, saying that the tazer isn’t the same as a gun in this scenario.

If the scumbag actually gets the tazer, he can incapacitate the cop and get his gun and kill him. Its absolutely a deadly situation for the cop. If a criminal gets even just my night stick, and tries to use it on me, I’m gonna shoot him. That’s called going home to your family.

 

I misspoke, but to clarify, a taser is less-than-lethal, but a suspect with a taser warrants LEO to escalate to lethal force. If you remember the Rayshard Brooks shooting, he wrestled a taser away from an officer, was able to incapacitate him with a cartridge, and fired the second cartridge at the second officer before the second officer Rolfe shot him.

While the case is still awaiting trial, it's not looking like the officers face a strong conviction. It's been bounced around from multiple prosecutors. APD had to reinstate Rolfe after wrongfully terminating him. APD hasn't gone on record stating Rolfe violated any department policy, but if he did, he probably wouldn't be free.

Using that case study, even a 2 v 1 is no guarantee that officers can subdue a suspect. Brooks nearly incapacitated two officers with their own taser. In this 1 v 1, the LEO can't restrain Lyoya and Lyoya has full control of his taser. The taser is fully capable of incapacitating the officer while they are grappling, whether or not the cartridges have been spent.

 

You say it's difficult, but possible that Lyoya could have contacted the LEO with the taser. You're also using it from the camera angle, but you don't know the LEO's POV. Lyoya's arm could be obscured from the LEO's POV that the LEO cannot risk getting contacted by the taser.

While the LEO has the advantage on Lyoya's back, you feel it's guaranteed that the LEO can restrain Lyoya without harm to himself. In a real world situation, fighting for your life without rules and a ref, are you confident that the LEO can fully control Lyoya when they appear to be physically matched?

 

I think it's wishful thinking to expect any LEO to be world class wrestlers able to restrain anybody. There should be a reasonable expectation for LEO to not be outclassed (eg female LEO vs male), but when there are weapons involved, LEO can escalate their level of force within reason.

Brooks fired a cartridge backwards towards Rolfe as he was running away, and it narrowly missed over Rolfe's head. Prior to that, Brooks fired a cartridge at the first officer with a successful hit. But we don't need to derail this thread about the details about the Brooks shooting. I agree it was a failure for two officers to not be able to successfully restrain one suspect, but it happens. In this Lyoya case, the LEO is also outnumbered and fortunate that the passenger stayed in the car and only recorded. In 1 vs 1, anything could happen, and it looked like Lyoya could physically overpower the LEO.

 

You make a very logical and strong case, I'll give you that.

Still the image of the man in that position with the officer on his back just doesn't look right.

To me it's not so much about whether the officer had the right to use lethal force in that situation, but whether or not he should have given the specific situation.

 

i didn’t know george floyd tried to take the cops weapon.

 

I agree that the image looks terrible, and when the media frames the situation as the LEO shooting an unarmed man point blank in the back of the head makes it sound awful until you watch the video and see how it unfolds.

The LEO escalates his level of force proportional to Lyoya's resistance, but Lyoya continued to escalate his level of resistance. The LEO could not control Lyoya when they first go to the ground. Once they stand up, Lyoya gains ground walking forward with the LEO holding him back. When the LEO takes his taser out, Lyoya successfully disarms him and steals the weapon. Lyoya was physically overpowering the LEO. The LEO did not use lethal force until he lost control of his taser. I think the LEO followed his training appropriately and had reasonable belief that Lyoya could incapacitate him with the taser.

 

Do I think the police did something illegal. Probably no. Do I think he should be fired. Probably yes. Unfortunately police officers pretty much only get fired when they do something illegal.