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Patrick Lyoya Shooting by Grand Rapids Police Officer

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Apr 15, 2022.

  1. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    no he would still be dead.
     
  2. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    Why are some people so dead set on finding fault with this cop? He was in a struggle with a criminal who had gotten a hold of one of his weapons. Time to die. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    common sense folks.
     
  3. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    im not understanding how these posts can come from the same person.

    so youre saying that if a 2nd officer was there and they were able to successfully subdue him that the cops would have still shot him...youre basically saying cops are cold blooded murderers...then in your next post you ask why people are dead set on finding fault with the cop.
     
  4. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    Im saying, with a second cop there, if he still struggles with the officer and takes his weapon he would’ve still been shot. One less idiot as it stands though. Glad that scumbag was killed.
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    From what I've seen of the situation this appears to me another incident of an LEO losing control of the situation and resulting to deadly force rather than being able to subdue someone otherwise.

    The taser was no longer effective for either the officer or Lyoyo's since it had been discharged a couple of times so I don't think that's an issue. The LEO had Lyoyo's back and should've been able to take him down and subdue him with even some basic Jujitsu.

    This case certainly isn't the George Floyd but I think it's very troubling.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    There are also ongoing protests over this incident.
     
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-ra...e-avoided-fatally-shooting-patrick-lyoya.html

    Experts say Grand Rapids police officer could have avoided fatally shooting Patrick Lyoya
    Published: Apr. 15, 2022, 1:18 p.m.

    GRAND RAPIDS, MI – Moments surrounding the death of Patrick Lyoya, an unarmed Black man shot and killed by a Grand Rapids police officer during a traffic stop, made some experts believe the officer could have avoided the shooting.

    Two law professors contacted by MLive/The Grand Rapids Press reviewed video footage of the Lyoya being killed by the unnamed police officer. Based on what they saw on the video, they said the officer didn’t need to shoot Lyoya.

    One of the professors, David A. Harris, claimed a foot chase was not needed in this case, while the other professor, Jeffrey A. Fagan, said a manslaughter charge is inevitable.

    Grand Rapids Police Chief Eric Winstrom, this week, released chilling video that showed the officer on top of Lyoya, 26, who was lying facedown in the grass when he was shot in the head during a traffic stop April 4. Michigan State Police are investigating the fatal shooting before eventually turning it over to Kent County Prosecutor Chris Becker for a charging decision.

    David A. Harris, the Sally Ann Semenko endowed chair and professor of law at the University of Pittsburgh School of Law, said there were a number of things – throughout the traffic stop – that didn’t go right on the officer’s part.

    Harris studies, writes and teaches about police behavior, law enforcement and race, and search and seizure law.

    The video shows the officer tell Lyoya to “stay in the car, stay in the car” as the officer approached during the traffic stop.

    “What did I do wrong?” Lyoya asked while standing outside the vehicle.

    MLive/Grand Rapids Press contacted Harris on Thursday, April 14 and emailed him a 20-minute video showing various angles of the shooting.

    The officer told him that the license plates did not match the car. Moments later, the officer appeared to briefly grab Lyoya – a moment where “this whole thing begins to go sideways,” Harris said.

    Lyoya then briefly flees before the officer begins a foot pursuit, later taking Lyoya to the ground where the struggle began.

    “Engaging in a foot chase can be risky,” Harris said.

    A foot chase can be a difficult and dangerous practice for police, Harris said, because the officer didn’t know if Lyoya was armed; if anyone nearby could help; and what intentions the passenger in Lyoya’s vehicle had.

    A foot pursuit, in this instance, was not needed, Harris said.

    “You have their vehicle right there,” Harris said, noting the officer could have identified Lyoya by searching the vehicle identification number.

    In February, the Chicago Police Department wrapped up the process for instituting a foot-pursuit policy, which says chases should only be initiated if the need to detain the person outweighs the risk to the public and the officer, the Chicago Tribune reported.

    The first draft of the policy was launched in May 2021 — about two months after two separate police chases ended in controversial fatal shootings.

    Policies on foot pursuits are not listed in GRPD’s traffic and accidents procedures.

    It’s a policy more police departments in the United States should begin to embrace, Harris said.

    “The idea you have to chase everybody down who tries to get away from you is simply false,” Harris said. “When the offense is wrong plate on the car, there’s no justification for it.”

    After reviewing the footage, Harris pointed to one conclusion:

    “I just don’t see the justification for pulling out the firearm and killing him,” he said.

    Kent County prosecutors said no decision will be made on potential charges against the unnamed officer until Michigan State Police conclude its investigation.

    A manslaughter charge is inevitable, Jeffrey A. Fagan, a Isidor and Seville Sulzbacher professor of law at Columbia Law School, told MLive/Grand Rapids Press on Thursday, April 14.

    “Should happen sooner than later,” he wrote in an email. Manslaughter carries a punishment of up to 15 years in prison.

    Fagan is a leading expert on policing, crime, gun control, and race whose scholarly research is influential in setting public policy.

    MLive also contacted Fagan on Thursday and asked him to review the same video of the fatal shooting.

    “This is a case where the mental health crisis team could have reduced the risk of a shooting,” Fagan wrote in the email.

    From Fagan’s point-of-view, “at no point was the officer’s life in danger.”

    “He shot as if the victim was armed and dangerous, which he wasn’t,” he wrote.
     
  8. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    oh Im sure
     
  9. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    I love how the article points out that he’s black right away. Thats our media though.
     
  10. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    No matter what your beliefs are you can't be as cold hearted as to sincerely say you're glad he's dead. No one deserves to die over running from the police or having invalid tags on a vehicle. The guy made a tragic mistake and my heart goes out to his family during this time.
     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  11. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    He tried to pull a cops gun when he was caught trying to run from his crime. He did make a tragic mistake and I do feel bad for his family too. Still, bad people have families. He sounds like an aggressive criminal who was trying to make the cops family the ones your heart goes out to.
     
  12. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Member

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    I have a feeling that if you do not resist arrest there’s a good chance that you will not be shot in the back of the head
     
    luckystrikes and pgabriel like this.
  13. AroundTheWorld

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    People unnecessarily dying either as a result of non-compliance or wrongdoing of either side in interactions with police.
     
  14. Tomstro

    Tomstro Member

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    So you want a world without idiots. Me too man.
     
  15. Duncan McDonuts

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    That's incorrect. A taser can still be used to drive stun after the cartridges are shot. It is still very effective to incapacitate someone in close quarters.
     
  16. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Regardless if justified or not that is a tough day at work to live through.
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    From the position of the LEO and Lyoya it doesn’t appear that Lyoya could’ve used the taser. The LEO was on Lyoya’s back and Lyoya had his hands down on the ground trying to hold himself and the LEO off the ground.

    Whether the Taser could’ve been used Lyoya probably couldn’t have made contact with the LEO to use it.
     
  18. Duncan McDonuts

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    What if Lyoya was holding a gun while the LEO was on his back? Would you be okay with the LEO using lethal force?
     
  19. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    BLM is the worst

     
  20. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    While the guy is certainly an idiot for pulling his gun, what makes you think he is a BLM supporter? Are the handful of white guys surrounding the car also BLM supporters?
     

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