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Patrick Beverley has earned the starting job

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by LelWestbrick, May 3, 2013.

  1. PhiSlamma

    PhiSlamma Member

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    Perfectly said and I agree 100%.

    Remember though, some people believed Douglas should have started over Lin. So, the mindset was always there.
     
  2. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    FIFY.
     
  3. hitman1900

    hitman1900 Member

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    To be frank, I don't think either Lin or Beverly should be starters in this league. I think the Rockets should be looking to upgrade the spot if possible.

    If Lin or Beverly are still here next year, I would choose Lin, he seems more reliable in a long drawn out season. The playoffs are a different matter.....
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    McHale clearly likes Beverley a lot. The guy is an energizer bunny and a great mid-season pickup, but he's better suited as a guy coming off the bench. Lin had a rough series, but its unfair to judge him based on that. Barring a trade, he should be the starter next year.
     
  5. JMAD21

    JMAD21 Member

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    I love Beverley. But Lin had a good season, Bev played great for a handful of games. Not enough to earn a starting spot over a player who averaged 13pts/7asts all year long
     
  6. torocan

    torocan Member

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    Those are really bad examples.

    The Bulls and Lakers operated the Triangle offense, which is essentially a system without a Point Guard.

    Steve Kerr was the point guard for the Bulls, but he wasn't the facilitator. The assist leaders were Pippen and Jordan.

    Derek Fisher was the point guard for the lakers, but he wasn't the primary facilitator there either. Kobe was actually the assist leader (with 5 apg).

    So, unless you plan on running the Triangle with the Rockets, or have Point Forward I don't think that's really a very good argument for a Point Guard not needing to faciliatate.

    Now, if you're arguing that Harden is going to be the effective Point Guard, that's a different story. In that case, you just want a strong shooting guard. And there's a lot of better shooting guards around than Beverley.

    Tony Allen anyone?
     
  7. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

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    torocan hit it on the head. Bev is great in spurts and definitely has tons of hustle, but he has serious deficiencies in offense. He doesn't even attempt anything remotely close to an assist because it's pretty clear that he doesn't see the other players when he has the ball. Even when he's on-ball defending, he leaves too much space and depends way too much on his speed to contest shots. These are things that get exposed over the course of a season or even, as we saw, during a playoff series.

    If you want someone who just needs to defend well and catch-and-shoot, because you want to rely on Harden to play combo guard, then what you really want is another combo guard or small forward. Those types of players would be much, much better suited to both ends of the court in that kind of scheme.
     
  8. proudfoot

    proudfoot Member

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    There's also the fact that Beverley's defense is extremely energy intensive - he can't actually sustain that level of energy for more than about 15 minutes a game.
     
  9. l4z4rd

    l4z4rd Member

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    at the rate at which he fouls, he'll have plenty of rest.
     
  10. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    So you accept that one can run an effective offensive system without a traditional point guard.

    Harden and Parsons both played "point" duties -- brought the ball up the floor, initiated the offense -- on this team throughout the season. We may not be running a triangle, but the offense we ran this year does not depend on having a traditional point guard.
     
  11. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

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    That's more due to the fact that we didn't have an offense this year... I mean, come on, they ran everything from Lin/Harden PNRs to straight run n' gun. The most consistent aspect of the offense was simply to spread the floor and let Harden drive or various players cut into the paint. The closest thing to that would be the dribble drive system, but it wasn't really a set system so much as a default plan of attack (because there wasn't time to learn anything more systematic).

    I'm really not sure what you're trying to argue against, here. Folks are saying that Beverley is an adequate replacement for Lin, and torocan is pointing out that if you want a real PG, then Lin is the better option. Arguing that "you don't actually need a PG" is kind of besides the point, because in those situations, even you agree that a completely different kind of player to Lin/Beverley is probably ideal.
     
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  12. l4z4rd

    l4z4rd Member

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    only if you choose to run a triangle offense.
     
  13. johnstarks

    johnstarks Member

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    Pretty much. Bev is a great guy to bring off the bench and wreak havoc with his intensity. But the guy does not have a point guard's mentality. The guy drove into the lane a few times and totally ignored or did not see Asik sitting unguarded at point blank range and instead either forced a shot or dribbled long enough for the defense to recover. His assist totals reflect this. Obviously he's young so he can improve on these things, but it wasn't a good sign that he wasn't even looking to distribute the ball. I really am not convinced he can be a starter.

    Lin is a starter in this league. I'm willing to look at his game 1 clunker as jitters for a young player--much like the others had. He was obviously too amped up and made a bunch of crazy decisions. His injury was bizarre and a damn shame because we really didn't get to see what Lin could do the rest of the playoffs. Morey's going to have a problem thinking about what to do with Lin this summer. Lin's regular season production is about fair market value of his 8 mil/year contract for a starting caliber PG. The real problem is you need players who bring more value than their contract to really win. I do think Lin will improve next year now that he's gonna come in fully healed from his surgery and having adjusted to playing with Harden. But will he bring enough value relative to his contract? I hope so because the balloon payment in year 3 of his contract will make it pretty hard to trade him though. Given that it'll probably be hard to trade Lin, my hope is that Lin develops four things: 1) better finishing abilities (floater and layups after contact), 2) better and more active on-ball defense, 3) more confidence in his belonging in the league, and 4) continued improvement in 3 point shooting
     
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  14. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I'm not arguing for Beverley over Lin. I just don't think its necessary that whoever we go with as the PG needs to be a traditional PG who is a facilitator rather than a scorer. To me, that's not an essential attribute for being an NBA point guard, particularly when you have playmakers at the 2 and 3 position.
     
  15. l4z4rd

    l4z4rd Member

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    just because Parsons and Harden are playmakers doesn't mean they should be handling the ball as much as they do. Between the two they averaged just shy of 8 TOs/game. Unacceptable.
     
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  16. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    Pretty much.

    Mario Chalmers would be a better fit for the Heat than say, an all-star like Rondo.
     
  17. L7N

    L7N Member

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    After tonight's showing. One thing's for sure. Bev is a better fit for this team if Harden is the ball handler. I think all parties know that.

    I honestly hope Lin gets shipped to a good team that actually needs a point guard.
     
  18. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

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    Yes, if you're going to run something that doesn't require a traditional PG, then Patrick Beverley is fine as the bench option for when you need to go small for a few minutes at a time (as would most PGs you could pick up for cheap in the league).

    I don't think you're seriously arguing that Chandler Parsons is a playmaker? The guy largely plays off the ball and does well with catch-and-shoot, but he rarely creates his own shot and doesn't do it consistently.
     
  19. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    His role as a playmaker expanded this season, to where he was 11th/106 among forwards playing at least 1000 minutes in Ast%. And I expect it to expand further next season.
     
  20. ed_tx

    ed_tx Contributing Member

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    Well, one could argue then that Kevin Martin would be a better fit than Beverley in that case b/c with Harden being the primary ball handler we just need a good catch and shoot guy. Now that other thread saying we would've won if we had Kmart makes sense... (Wow it must be getting late)
     

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