I never said that our nation shouldn't defend itself. What does terrorists cutting throats have to do with people using their freedoms as Americans? They are unrelated. Furthermore being Iraq won't prevent terrorists from slitting our throats either. Neither will any of the things that Kevin laments in his letter.
Giddy, Iraq did not attack us. They did not have plans to attack us. They couldn't have attacked us even if they wanted to. They were hemmed in with UN inspectors on their lands, asking for even more time to ensure that there was nothing they could do. They didn't have chemical or biological weapons to deliver to terrorists who wanted to attack us. They were not a threat to us. The terrorists weren't there until AFTER we invaded. Please don't act like we went there to go after terrorists. That is BS. I wish we had stayed where the biggest threat from terrorists existed and finished the job. All of this that is happening in Iraq wasn't happening until after we got there. Germany had declared war on us. They were a threat. They had attacked our allies. So we took the fight to them. So the U.S. didn't invade Africa. Our allies, however, did invade Africa. They had been invading and colonizing it for decades. So the allied side of WWII certainly were an occupying force in Africa.
Germany is a nation. Terrorism is not a nation. I wouldn't expect them to dress in all neon pink for our convenience.
Excellent threads such as this one have pushed this letter to all levels of the national news -- no doubt it will soon go international. ESPN The brother of an NFL player who was killed in Afghanistan after quitting the team to join the U.S. Army Rangers has broken his silence. "Somehow, the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow, this is tolerated. Somehow, nobody is accountable for this." ________ Congratulations on once again getting the truth out -- this letter is important because those on the far right must respect the word of a man -a soldier- like Kevin Tillman. Keep fighting the good fight.
Are you in favor of staying in Iraq (with the great concentration) of terrorists and finishing the job now? You seem to be admitting that there is a job of dealing death that needs be done. Isn't that part of what Bush said he wanted to do: draw the terrorists into a central fight in a place that was not on our soil?
Hell if I know, that's part of the problem of a conflict between ideals versus a conflict between nations. All I know is that expecting a loose collaboration of islamic militants to sport a singular uniform is kind of.. well.. silly.
As far as I can tell he is more creating new terrorists in Iraq than he is drawing existing terrorists to Iraq. This is a fundimental flaw in this plan (not to mention the fact that it is totally immoral to ivade a country with the express objective of using it as a battlefield.) The administration has a complete lack of desire or ability to examine and understand how other people will feel about and react to their actions. You also make a false distinction in that your comments imply that someone was born a terrorist or becomes a terrorist and is incapable of moving away from that. One only has to look at Northern Ireland, where terrorists have made a peace and aren't fighting any more, to see that this is not true.
We are also killing a bunch of them. Iraq flaunted the UN sanctions for more than a decade; they were not particularly innocent. I don't think I made any such distinction. The opponents seem to think that terrorists are only made. I think many are dismayed and dissuaded. We have no way to know that number. Here's a read: http://www.nypost.com/seven/1020200...st_the_jihadis_opedcolumnists_amir_taheri.htm
If this is what you really believe it would perhaps best be described as an article of faith, because I have seen absolutely no evidence that would even hint at this happening. So you advocate punishing the people of Iraq, because they had a murderous dictator who did what he wanted? That is akin to throwing a man's wife in jail when that man is convicted of wife beating. Does that mean that you are not particularly innocent since you live in the same country as Charles Manson and the David Berkowitz?
If I was I would be the only one. The administration is not willing to make agreements with any group other than Al-Qaeda. We know that Al Qaeda is hoping that we stay in Iraq. I am in favor of staying in, but with the goal of a political solution, with minimal military backing in Iraq. I would like to move the military resources and use those in stabalizing Afghanistan and wiping out terrorists there. I am in favor of trying to help Iraq, but I don't believe the help is really going to come militarily, and neither does James BAker's commission. Dealing death doesn't need to be our top priority in Iraq.
Why do you think only new zealots are created? Doesn't that article of faith likewise fit a particular agenda-- an even more extreme one? Are these people not capable of reason-- some of them? I think there are plenty of hints. Did you read the article I posted? We liberated Iraq from a dictator. It's not the Americans who are piling up dead Iraqi bodies anymore.
This made front page of the right wing Drudge Report today. I was wondering if they were ever going to post this story.
This letter is/has nothing new... except a "celebrity" author who happens to get his pencil sharpened in the run up to a November election.
I think there is plenty of evidence from the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, to the British in Northern Ireland, to the many German occupations in WWII, to the Imperial German occupation of Belgium in WWI, and I'm sure plenty more that don't come to mind, that the harder you crack down on insurgents the more insurgents you create. I can make a decent supposition on the causes, but don't want to clutter the basic truth that the history shows. If you are unaware of specifics, please give me some time and I will look up specific incidences and related surges in insurgents. I honestly don't see how it is not obvious if you have studied history at all and have any perspecive. I am not using the previous statement as a rhetorical device, it is genuinely beyond me and at conflict with everything I know, like arguing that the sun will rise in the west. By the way, I did read the article you posted and it appears to me to be your basic editorial - it is arguing for or against a position. It is not exactly loaded with meaty facts. A web search indicates that Mr. Tahari, apparently, works on the side as a motivational speaker. That pretty much says it all. The first statement is like saying I killed the man who was trying to rob you, so now I have a right to rape you. The second is only marginally true. Americans are still killing as many Iraqis as ever, but the mess we stirred up has resulted in a large upswing of Iraqis killing Iraqis. We are still killing plenty of Iraqis. Here is an article which fairly reasonably counters your idea that the US is doing a great job in Iraq, and they all want us to stay around. When the US government has to admit that we were 'stupid and arrogant' to have credibility with Iraqis...
This letter is exploding around the world thanks to the power of the internet -- an amazing letter that 100's of millions will read and take to heart. _______ Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started. Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated. Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated. Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated. Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated. Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe. Somehow torture is tolerated. Somehow lying is tolerated. Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense. Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world. Somehow a narrative is more important than reality. Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is. Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world. Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance. Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow this is tolerated. Somehow nobody is accountable for this. Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday. Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman, Kevin Tillman
What do you think? When you use rhetorical tactics like this it only demeans you. I'm guessing that it means that you can't formulate any valid reason that the Iraqis should thank us for choosing their country to prossicute the war on terror.
