When Morey can draft a Dwayne Wade and land Shaq and turn it into a championship and then land Lebron, Bosh, and Ray Allen and turn that into a couple championships then you can say they are on the same level. So when (or if) Morey gets his rings then he can compare himself to Riley. Until then, he's way below.
I hope you don't really believe that Riley didn't do anything. Yes it was mostly the players but it wouldn't have happened without the GM making it a possibility.
Riley didn't do anything that any other GM couldn't have done in the same situation. It was the players who decided to join together.
of course Riley did something. he arranged the party where they could come out and say they'll win not 1, not 2......
When Brad Stevens can take a team to the Conference Finals he can say he's on the same level as Kevin McHale, until then he's way below. When Chris Paul can win a championship he can say he's on Mario Chalmers' level as a PG, until then he's way below. I'm not even arguing that Morey is as good as Riley. Riley has a much longer track record to evaluate. However, someone who says we should get rid of Morey at this stage would also have said that about Pat Riley as a GM in the same time frame. Would they have been wrong?
I don't give Riley ZERO credit for it, however, they couldn't team up in Cleveland because Cleveland didn't have the same cap situation that Miami did and teaming up in Toronto would have stupid from a financial perspective. That said, of course it mattered that the Heat had a title already under Riley in the recent history and of course the owner mattered. The players liked and respected Riley and Arison. Very few people can say the same about the Cavaliers management/ownership at the time.
I don't need to. Maybe we should credit Dwight and Dwight alone for choosing to come to Houston. Morey had nothing to do with it. Or credit OKC for calling Morey about James Harden, Morey just did what any GM would do. See how that works?
"Riley is all Luck! Luck! Luck!" :grin: As long as you acknowledge Daryl got lucky! A team that has LeBron, Wade and Bosh will have veterans lining up for the minimum. Who wants to go play on a 45-win team? *snicker* Houston ha(s/d) two superstars. Why haven't the stars or even ring chasers flocked to play with them? Is Houston not the top 5 destination the GM says it is? Or are Dwight & James toxic teammates no one wants to play with? Is it impressive Riley's had success in big markets? Yes. Yes, it is. Houston is a big market, the GM says they're a top 5 destination and players want to play here. Yet....?
Look at Brad Stevens overall win-loss record and compare it to McHale's. Chris Paul is one player. A GM has the ability to affect all the players and the coach. Not the same thing. Just so you know, I'm not saying we should get rid of Morey. The only argument in this thread (from me) is that Riley has been better.
I would agree with you about Dwight. I mean, not that Morey had NOTHING to do with it... but nobody can make a free agent choose where to go. They choose a destination for their own personal reasons. Dwight signed with Houston because he thought it was the best fit for him. It's not like he joined the Rockets because of Morey. But as for the OKC trade, Morey did not do what any GM would do. Other GM's did not value Harden like Morey did. Morey gave up more for Harden than other GM's would because he saw more value in him than other GM's did.
Riley has been better, but it took him 11 years to do something that Morey hasn't done. Your taking a guy who now has 21 years of GM experience to a guy who has 10 and saying one is better. Well of course, but I think a factor in the comparison should be that guy with 21 years only started getting titles from year 11 on and the circumstances that led to the 3 titles he won in the last 11 years of his run are LARGELY factors of luck. In fact, many on this very board bash Morey for trying to do what the Heat in fact did. The Heat moved pieces around, kept themselves flexible and star chase every year. Edit: An oh, Brad Stevens has a .449 winning percentage in the NBA compared to Kevin McHales .556. McHale is better. LOL
On point here. I also agree with OP about a basketball mind which was honed through years of involvement with basketball. Morey may be from MIT and some sort of wiz with numbers and such but that does not translate into real and in depth knowledge of basketball. For instance, the nobel prize winners in physics or math are great at those fields but they certainly cannot be any good applying their knowledge to managing a basketball team. Of course, Morey is no where close to a nobel prize but I just used that as an example. I have always argued that analytics is a great tool to have as an aid to basketball knowledge and understanding but that is there to it. Basketball knowledge and intuition about the game and its players are a totally different universe from an analytics first approach. Great thread OP!
Of course Riley is better. Like Isiah Thomas? It's hard to understand, but Riley is a smart business man and a basketball mind.... I know it's cool nowadays to say we need a basketball mind, but just be careful what you wish for....
