Shouldn't this count as a death threat? Seriously, he is advocating the specific death of the President. He is openly calling for the death of the President. Wouldn't members of his church feel that he could have some sway with God? COuldn't they think that maybe they are the instrument of his God? I know this is walking on a thin line because of nobody wants to be seen as attacking Christianity (especially a secret Muslim) but what if some guy was in a secular public space - like a CEO at a company meeting - and started saying he wished somebody woul kill Obama?
I went to the pastor's website and took time to read through it. I earlier posted he is false because he was speaking against Christ by praying the president would die. I assumed he was counterfeit. I certainly don't agree with him but I was hasty to judge it. After reading the church website I understand how he could make such a terrible error. It is disgusting to me and shameful but I think I should have contacted him personally before I posted blindly. Christians can certainly get in serious error. This is a very dangerous error. This is a little different than the KKK claiming they are Christian while they spew hate and racism (maybe not much). I don't consider racists to be true Christians. I also don't think you can hate a person willfully and be a genuine Christian. I could be wrong. Pride comes in many forms. What he said about the president was wrong and opposed to Jesus Christ and he should appologize and ask for forgiveness. If it seems appropriate I will try to email him personally. Just can't wait for the next Christian Crusade against something.
yeah, i'd be interested in hearing this. i like rhester because madmax talks very highly of him, but that was way too close to rationalizing a sick and deranged human being who is influencing his followers tremendously by openly praying and wishing for the death of someone he disagrees with politically.
Same thing. Just because you call yourself a hamburger certainly doesn't make you a hamburger Just because you call yourself a Christian doesn't make you a Christian. Just as a terrorist calls himself a Muslim doesn't make him a Muslim.
Of course it's an AR-15. The AK-47 is a commie gun. The problem here, I think, is that there are two operating definitions of christian. The first is sociological, which would be widely inclusive because anyone can be christian just be self-identifying. The second is theological and more narrow (or maybe wider depending on your theology) because it is the population that will actually be saved from damnation. In a sociological definition, the No True Scotsman fallacy applies. In a theological definition, the governing book provides some definition of who is in and who is out and how you would know the difference, so the fallacy isn't so clear. I can see why Christians (theologically) would object to the suggestion that they have to let in every kook that claims to be a christian (sociologically). If they can't say, for the most basic example, that Jesus died for their sins, they shouldn't be allowed to claim Christianity, No-True-Scotsman-fallacy be damned. Praying for someone's death is more gray than that, but I don't think it is fallacious to define away someone's membership in Christianity (since no one knows for sure anyway), as long the definition is consistent and intellectually honest. I would not define him away. I think he's making a serious theological error and committing a sin, but you can be wrong and sinful and still be saved.
Your lecture is targeting the wrong person. You might want to send the good rev an email explaining that wishing for the president to be murdered doesn’t really fall in line with his Christian beliefs.
From the church website he is very extreme in his views and very rigid. I in no way think what was said is justifiable, what he said about the president is a sin against who Jesus is in my opinion and not Christian at all. But I know there is a difference between good gone wrong and bad pretending to be good. I just read enough on the website to understand he is one of those who thinks sincerely he is really going what God wants him to do and I regret he is very wrong in a very dangerous way. Is he a Christian? He isn't acting like it. There are alot of false Christians, at least Jesus talked alot about it.
"But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." (Matthew 12:36-37).
It made me sick that they claim to be Christ's followers, I did see their efforts to be Christian on the church website, tragic that they missed it. Some people go seriously wrong with religion thinking they are doing right and then there are evil people who pretend to be good. Slight difference is all I see there. That's what I meant, I'm not sure if they are counterfeits or way off track. Both are equally deadly.
[rquoter]From Steven Anderson's sermon: ...[Y]ou're going to tell me that I'm supposed to pray for the socialist devil, murderer, infanticide, who wants to see young children and he wants to see babies killed through abortion and partial-birth abortion and all these different things -- you're gonna tell me I'm supposed to pray for God to give him a good lunch tomorrow while he's in Phoenix, Arizona? Nope. I'm not gonna pray for his good. I'm going to pray that he dies and goes to hell.[/rquoter] Not a fan of collective property? Think it's worthy of death? Reminds me of this guy: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HiZsCNDIDss&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HiZsCNDIDss&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
He is totally wrong. Sickening and not Christian. I know that man well, his name is Otto Koning (didn't listen to it yet) but he is a great man who worked for years as a missionary in Dutch New Guinea. He tells the story of how he was a missionary for years and wasn't a real Christian because he didn't love the people he was living with. He changed His life and went back to the remote tribes and shared God's love with them. He loved them very much in his later years. That is the story of the pineapple preacher. I met him in Houston and he was a very kind, self sacrificing and giving person. He was rude, selfish and prejudice when he first did missions work and then God changed his heart. I will listen to the clip when I have time.
...[Y]ou're going to tell me that I'm supposed to pray for the socialist devil, murderer, infanticide, who wants to see young children and he wants to see babies killed through abortion and partial-birth abortion and all these different things -- you're gonna tell me I'm supposed to pray for God to give him a good lunch tomorrow while he's in Phoenix, Arizona? [/B] I'm not gonna tell you that, but Jesus might. Oh, wait, he totally did tell you that already. You should probably turn pass Leviticus occasionally to see what Jesus had to say about praying for those you'd call your enemies. Here, let me help...I'm sure you're not a fan of using the whole context when you quote Bible verses as if they're weapons, but I'll go ahead and use the whole context just to make sure you know I'm not trying to trick you. Here goes: Matthew 5: 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Fellow Christians: There is sooo much in the Church right now that is family worship. So much, "just be a good Dad for Jesus!" But come on...there's zero that's revolutionary about that sort of love. We all pretty much love our kids. That's easy. The verse above is about the very radical notion that you should meet hatred with love. That you should answer persecution with prayer for the persecutor. It's what you read over and over modeled from Jesus. It's hard as hell to live that way....easy to say the words...hard to live. I think it's supposed to be. But THAT is revolutionary. That's Jesus.
question is, do people even agree with him that Obama is really a "socialist devil, murderer, infanticide" and that Obama and the governemt is his enemy and prosecuting him?
that's a whole other issue. apparently this guy does. and if he does, his Bible, particularly the letters in red, should tell him pretty clearly how to respond. he's chosen politics over the Jesus he clings to....or he's so transformed Jesus as to make him unrecognizable to me.
the Bible tells him how to appropriately respond to an enemy or murderer isn't it more important tell him how to appropriately label someone as an enemy or murderer first?
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MadMax again. I swear, I see that message a LOT!
sure. find a way to define the label. that's fine. label him an enemy...or not....either way, pray for him. love him. treat him with respect. acknowledge he's created in the image of God the very same as you are. when jesus was talking about enemies he was likely referring to who the Jews thought were their enemies in the first century....the Romans. the Romans were crucifying Jews like crazy. i'm thinking if the edict applies to jews for romans, it probably applies to this jackass and his president.
