Parents: White Teacher Should Not Teach Black History

I beleive this is one of those "prove my point" comments

It's dismissive nature only bolsters the feeling why so many blacks still feel resentment towards whites.

...unless Glynch is being completely genuine in his curiousity...but pardon my skepticism.

 

Is that so? What do you think would be the end result if whites had equal respect (devoid of all hatred) for the Africans?

Chicken/Egg. If it makes you feel better to justify it in those terms, then carry on.

But the issue is we have a white and black, both equally credentialed. In another circumstance, the white could do just fine, I'm sure. But we have a choice here and there is an obvious answer...and Oberlin High School didn't chose it.

 

I think Glynch posted this in another thread, and then posted it here too (by mistake I think). In any case, it's just glynch being glynch.

krosfyah, I want to reieterate that I hear where you are coming from. I can't get in a black person's shoes of course, but I can start to imagine, given the stains of our history in this nation, what it might be like to have a white person teaching my people's history to me. I hope we can agree that we would at the very least want an extremely competant and passionate teacher who (as rimbaud suggested) might supplement readings with a lot of personal historical accounts. In any case, I'm with you in that I don't want someone "just dropped in," like the assistant football coach whose knowledge of African American history is his once renting Ali starring Will Smith.

 

No...you are missing the point. There is no hatred going on here. There is a slave owner using his property to make money. The slaves were property...they were not human in the slaveowners eyes. They were not just beat up for fun..why? Because they were property. Not to say that didn't happen, but the vast majority of slave owners wanted to get the most out of their investment and it would not be productive to beat your investment to death. The slave owner dehumanizes the African and the dehumanization is what allows for the subhuman treatment. Subhuman treatment because they were not regarded as human by the owners.

Maybe another way I can explain it...in a rodeo they use prods on the animals and all sorts of cruel things, same in circus' too, but do the people who do those things hate the animals? No they don't...they just see them as animals and that makes it ok to treat them like that. I hope that's a bit clearer on what I am trying to say. Like when the slaveowners would be the slaves it would be like the same way a person might beat a dog to make it learn. They don't hate the dog but that is the only way they feel the dog will learn.

 

Using such a racial policy to select a teacher serves to propagate the racism in our culture that we -- black and white -- are trying to extinguish. When you say a white person can't really understand, you put a wall between the races and say "this person is different from me." If you continue to divide the races like that voluntarily, how can you hope to defeat the racism you decry? You are multiplying it. The blacks say, "you and I are not the same because my great grandfather was enslaved by your great grandfather and I still bear the scars of that experience." Then the white folks say, "This group is separate. They want to keep to themselves. They still, even after all this time, resent the white race for what happened in previous generations. They don't trust us so we'd better just hang back." And the racial divide remains.

My feeling is there is something more important at stake here than the quality of the teacher. Even if I granted that the black teacher brings a better perspective and would provide a better education on slavery and black history, you do more damage to the children (black and white) by telling them it is ok to discriminate by race; that those people aren't like our people; that we cannot fundamentally understand one another. In the end, the racism of these parents is a disservice to themselves because they perpetuate the racial divide.

 

you crazy Mick!!! your opinions don't count!!!

before anyone freaks out, i'm 15/16 Irish at last count...

 

B-Bob, very nice post.

Let me clarify a few points.

1. I have not once stated that ONLY blacks should teach African American History.

2. I firmly beleive that credentials are equally, if not more, important than background and repeatedly said so. But both Oberlin teachers are equally credentialed.

Oberlin High School had a choice between the two. In fact, on paper, the black teacher was more credentialed since he/she taught it for the previous 7 years. Oberlin chose the white teacher instead because of a technicality (a scheduling conflict).

3. What I am doing here is presenting the alternative point of view, which nobody has up to this point.

Is it so outlandish to beleive that some black parents are taking this stance?

Would you question this if we were in another country? Do you think Italians, Spaniards, Argentinian's would allow an "outsider" to teach their history? Of course you wouldn't question it if some concerned parents made an issue of an "outsider" coming in. It's a valid point. Whether you agree with the point or not is a different issue.

The point here is that Oberlin High School may have made the switch too soon w/out considering the cultural intricacies of the situation.

 

First, lets be clear that I never used the word 'policy.'

Look, we all need to live in this world peacefully. In my opinion, one of the really great parts of life is learning about new cultures and people. These differences need to be celebrated...not assimilated. It's what makes the world go round. Recognizing and preserving our differences is extremely important.

So as a society, we should make every effort to provide the richest experiences possible. It's not about propogating racism. It's about recognizing and ACCEPTING our differences. Acceptance is the key...because without that, then it is racism.

Were not talking about Quotas, affirmative action or denying anybody an opportunity based on race. We are talking about a school that has a choice in front of them.

Now, back out of the clouds.

Also keep in mind that African Americn "History" is very new. We still have many many people alive (just about anybody over, say, 50) that lived through important chapters of "the history book." That's priceless. If we're talking 200 years from now, anybody could teach about the civil rights movement. But African American history is a MODERN history. You have millions of peope that can draw upon personal experience. Of those millions of people, how many are actually teachers?

Now again, at Oberlin, they had a choice. It's not the theoretical conversation we are having here.

 

I absolutely agree that the most credentialed person, regardless of race, should have first consideration.

At Oberlin, the black teacher just happens to be the most competant by virtue that he taught the subject for the past 7 years.

Without knowing more facts, it appears like Oberlin made a mistake and should work out the scheduling conflict.

 

Not at all. Reasonable reaction, and I see your point about the school having a choice. I really like your point about the issue being so "new" to curricula and having such recent relevance. It sounds like we're in agreement over the idea of a written "policy" though.

Mainly, 1/4 of me is outraged by Madmax's insensitivity. If it wasn't for the more peaceful French blood, I would probably be posting very ugly things in response. (with beret, please)

 

B-Bob, it could have helped you if you got some Chinese blood in you. Chinese are more peaceful than French. I know this by watching Yao Ming and Tony Parker.

But I see that it's too late now.

 

screw your outrage...i'm freaking irish...you wanna go right now??

1/16 of you got absolutely screwed...

1/4 of you is as big a jackass as me...

3/16 of you just surrendered....but the good news is that part of you makes a mean gumbo! man, i love gumbo.

1/4 of you desires to wear skirts and call them something else.

1/8 of you is Italian...that's too easy.

and the final 1/8 of you could..could...be alien. peanut butter, anyone?

 

Drats. A human has seen through our clever disguise of mutt-like blood. Move to phase II.

 

Thx. I agree a written policy is a bad idea here (in 2003).

Somebody else gave an example of a white person that was directly involved in the underground railroad vs. a newly arrived African. If they were the only two applicants and both were good teachers, probably the white teacher gets the nod. You have to look at the facts and make a sound decision.

Every situation is based in context...but racial sensitivity is an important factor sometimes. Oberline High School came accross one of those times, IMO.

 

Like most racial threads, this one might never die.

For the record. I understand the sensitivity of black folk toward the teaching of balck history, howver only the type of stereotypcial pc type would continue to inist that only black people can teach it.

 

I think the root of our disagreement (speaking personally, and not as a representative of anyone else who sees this as racism) begins somewhere in this quote. I don't see that differences should be preserved and celebrated. If we're talking about the difference between Americans and Kazaks, I would agree. They have their own nation and their own culture. Black America is a different entity. It is a subculture, not something autonomous. They should be, in my view, Americans first and blacks second, while I see you saying it is just the opposite.

I'm not saying, btw, that the subculture would or should be abolished; only that there are some lines (like this one) it should not cross. By crossing that line, it is not simply a celebration of one's own particular heritage but a rejection of the larger group to which one belongs. To have a class on black history is a celebration of the uniqueness of black American culture; to say that a white teacher is not allowed to participate in that celebration is exclusionary and a rejection of the American context in which the blacks reside.

Btw, I appreciate the point that the civil rights movemeny is not far behind us and happened in the lives of many teachers still alive. The black teacher may have (depending on his age) lived through that era, which would be valuable experience to bring to bear, but the white teacher may have as well. Is his experience of living through that era not worth much?

As a matter of fact, on the subject of personal experience, I think you can as easily make the argument that the experience of the white teacher is more important. This school, as I understand it, is predominately black. What the kids don't know about being black from their own personal experience, they can be told about by their friends, their parents, their teachers. Because they share the African American identity, they have a reason to talk about the subject. So, where do the kids learn about the white perspective on slavery and civil rights and the rest? Their parents can't provide that. Most of the white people they come across won't be able to or have reason to discuss it with them. But, to have a white teacher teaching African American History means you have a white man telling you what he thinks about the whole business. So, you'd actually get a more diverse and robust exposure to the subject and a better understanding of whites even while you are learning about blacks.

 

Well...not in America.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. And yes, Glynch, I don't hate myself for agreeing with you on this one. Who cares who the messenger is as long as the message gets out?

 

this reminds me of the movie how high...

 

I can move and become something different . . a Black French men . . .a Black whatever
But I will always be black

To me . .this is like saying you should be an AMERICAN before you are A MAN!
Being HUMAN, MALE, BLACK are things that cannot change

I see where you coming from . . . but how often is the German Perspective of the Holocaust given? How about the Yogu Ethnic Genocide attempt? I mean hell . . .What about the British side of the Revolutionary War?

Rocket River
I think the white teacher should be allowed to teach . . ..
I question WHAT he teaches more than What he looks like