I think if you look into anything on earth, people have distorted meanings or intended purposes. It does not mean all of the people doing these things are believing in "bunk." It does not mean every single person involved in something is all about catching attention for themselves just because someone identifying themselves as part of that group is doing that. Again, this is why Paul spoke so strongly against it. What you are doing is being the proverbial P.E. Coach and making the whole class run extra laps because one knuckle head didn't follow the rules. Broad brush-ism at it's finest... and it gets old really quick. Some of us are trying to be helpful. You should find it helpful if you are willing to give it a chance. Again, by contrast, post up the acts of Jeremiah Wright, and his church's beliefs as published and we'll see if you have an argument about Palin's particular brand of belief. BTW- Interesting you cited other Biblical instances of more than one tongue at work.
Iroc, Sorry it all seems a bit much to me. I don't believe in the Bible as text written by God, I believe it to be by man to explain the unexplainable. I do believe that Jesus lived and was a great man, but do not believe in the resurrection. And to hear that Palin is on the religious fringe does not give me confidence it makes me want her further away from government as far as possible. I would rather have people who use their intellect to question things than blindly follow along like sheep. And I know you don't think so but speaking in tongues to me is just not believable in any way shape or form it seems very much about people trying to fit in, rather than think for themselves. In essence and we should probably stop now, I do not in any way believe in the Pentecostal faith......I expect a long diatribe as a reply, but trust me, it won't change one thing. DD
Yet... being that we are speaking in English... and are all defined by such terms... it is in fact irony. The point I made was to counter that idea DaDakota had that broadly painted "speaking in tongues" as a joke simply because he did not believe it. Those are issues of irony. Many people have failed to believe many things, about various issues throughout history, only to find out at a later time, ironically, that their own views were wrong. The irony is solidified when they refuse to accept the truth... and then they move from ignorance (innocent lack of knowledge) to stupidity (willing refusla of knowledge), while in their own minds educated on the matter they do not know... The definition of cultural and oft times religious irony. My point was not to you, but hopefully now you see what I am saying. Just because people believe, or choose not to believe, it does not change truth. Paging Mulder!
Well by your own admission speaking in tongues has gone on for over 2000 years and not once has it been proven to be truth. So, by your definition the burden of proof on it being true lies with you Iroc it or people who think like you, because the vast majority of the world does not believe it. DD
The first place we differ is in calling anything a "Pentecostal faith." My faith is placed in Christ. Christ told his disciples to wait for the promise of the Father. It just so happened to fall of on the 50th day after Passover. To further think that people that do believe in the Bible as an actual God-inspired text are "sheep" that "blindly" follow is to totally debunk any belief in Christ you claim to have. Jesus is The Word made flesh. To reject the resurrection is to reject the entire purpose for any belief He existed. I am not trying to change you either. Only one person is responsible for that... and his name is not Obama. BTW- If you think speaking in tongues allows people to fit in... all I have to say is look around... not many seem to fit in then. Simply put... again... just because you doubt it, or haven't seen it, does not mean it is not reality.
Being part of a religious sect and seeing others do it, creates a hysteria and a primal need to fit in. I believe the people speaking in tongues are experiencing the Bandwagon effect I can respect you as a person and still believe your views are based upon fallacy and mythos. DD
The vast majority of the western, US world perhaps... but I suggest you do more research in worldwide theology if you suspect it is so utterly cast aside as whatever it is you feel it is. I can tell you this. It is true. I see it weekly. I hear it weekly. I even have the experience in my own life for the past 22 years personally. But again.. a matter of FAITH is not a matter of a burden.
True? Because you see a bunch of human beings which are corruptable, fallable, and maleable do it does NOT make it true. Yes it is true they wallow around spewing something but to say they are speaking to God or filled with his/her spirit is disingenous at best.- Oh, I think some believe it is true, but I believe they are intellectually bankrupt in believing it. DD
And by your logic I can equally say that I respect you as a person and believe your views are based on lack of an open mind and personal understanding. See how easy that is? I didn't even once cite wikipedia!
Sure, the difference is that I am not trying to prove my faith, whereas you are speaking in absolutes as if what you see is true, which is false. How do you know the people you see are not inspired by the Devil? Answer: You don't. How do you know the people you see are not faking it? Answer: You don't. How do you know the people you see are filled with the Holy Spirit? Answer: You don't. The burden of truth lies with you Iroc, not me......to me....it just doesn't add up, and people I have spoken to who have left the Pentecostal faith confirm my beliefs that they were faking. So, que cera cera...... DD
I like how you keep editing thigs before I reply... There are more of "us" than you think. Why ever did it become a name calling accusation game? Intellectual bankruptcy could just as easily be a descriptor of someone unwilling to learn why things are done... or are in fact reality. So what you're saying is... just because it happens...doesn't mean it's real? That's priceless. So... just because I pray daily doesn't mean it happens? Just because I find Biblical precedent and backing for events in my life doesn't mean any of it is real? I'm so shattered. My life is a total fraud. The reality I have experienced is totally smoke and mirrors... (to borrow a '90's reference) NOT! Truly priceless. I'm glad we had this concretely logical discussion about matters of faith... which by all accounts are never discovered, sought or explained in "logical" concrete terms anyhow. I love you anyway... Rockets fan, believer, Atheist, Democrat, American, Muslim... or not. You're a priceless human. You are cool by me.
So because some were faking that means all were faking? I know several guys who joined service orgs in college because they were able to meet girls and get them into bed. Does that mean that all men in those orgs have an ulterior motive?
I am 100% behind this point..... I just have different beliefs about God and religion. Not at all, but the burden of proof does not lay with me, it is with the people allegedly consumed with the Holy Spirit. By the same token, just because some say they are consumed with the Holy Spirit does not make it so....couldn't the devil be confusing humans into thinking they are in the Holy Spirit when in reality they are consumed by something else? DD
So because somebody has beliefs different from your, they are somehow mentally deficient? Wow. That sure is becoming more and more prevalent on this board. Very sad.
This ignores, of course, the fact that proving it to you or anybody else isn't their point. They don't care if you believe they have faith or not.
No, they can believe what they want, I was saying what I believe, they may believe I am morally bankrupt because I don't believe. I am ok with that. Fine by me, but don't be surprised if I don't want them in the Whitehouse..... DD
This is why I hate it when people claim to know what God wants. How do they know? They may think it is what God wants, and to try to have your actions led by that is admirable. It is better to be led by the actual teachings from your religious text of choice.
