Palestine now a non-member observer state thanks to landslide UN Vote, US pissed off

There are issues about the legality of his arrest and so on, and there's a question as to which crimes he was responsible for directly, but there's no doubt he was one of the architects of the Second Intifada and responsible for a lot of deaths. I'm certainly not putting my hat in as a character reference, just saying he's the least polarizing figure in Palestine and the only guy with the political capital to enforce any kind of final agreement with Israel.

He supported peace in the beginning of his career and became militant later, when things broke down. People followed him wherever he went, and likely would again if he went back to politics. His popularity is higher than anyone in Palestine, so much so that both Fatah and Hamas lobbied for his release during prisoner exchanges. It's also telling that neither side is threatened by his popularity.

Releasing him would be a strong gesture that Israel is serious about peace. Even Peres promised to pardon him but it never happened. But I certainly can understand why.

 

Muslim posters on here

Do you support Hamas? -- yes or no

simple question

 

Oh, wonderful. I can’t wait for the huge amounts of bull**** lawfare that will occur at idiotic international courts.

 

Apparently Ireland wasn't a nation in the 1990s either. Nor are Iran and Pakistan are nations.

 

SOME folx don't consider the KKK terrorist. . . . they consider them Patriots.

Rocket River

 

I just went to dictionary.com, and this is what they said:

That was kinda long; can you help me find the part about terrorists?

This is the No True Scotsman fallacy all over again.

The truth is that the creation of a nation is almost always accompanied by violence, and by acts we would today consider terrorism. The American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Mexican Revolution, the Russian Revolution, on and on everywhere and every time. If the Palestinians were not willing to fight and kill and die for their statehood, then I would wonder if they were sufficiently conscious of their unity to be called a nation.

 

so you support the actions of Hamas?

 

How did your motherland vote?

 

Do you support the actions of President Obama?

 

well done. Palestinians won the world.

 

Historically many of the countries in the West have treated their own citizens much better than they treat the citizens of non=Western third world countries.

 

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Well Hamas won the election against the PLO before, but the US and Israel did not like the results and so refused to recognize the results. They encouraged their preferred guy Abbas and the PLO to try to to have a coup in Gaza, which failed. The more Abbas cooperates with a hardline Israel the more of a stooge he seems, so Hamas gains in popularity.

 

Both Germany and South Korea abstained. They should have voted against.

 

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You can't support something that's fake. Something created to instill fear in the minds of the naive and gullible.

Your Hamas is a lie.

No, I don't support any Hamas.

 

How does this accomplish anything?

Nothing changes except to show how impotent the U.N. really is.

 

Actually pretty happy with this turnout. If Canada had voted for it I'd question our stance. Also satisfied with France and UK, kind of think we all complement each other diplomatically.

 

Reading comprehension is obviously not their strong suit.

 

Actually if the US has a "guy" it's Feyed. He's even an old colleague of Stanley Fisher's at the Fed, and spoke very highly of him. And frankly, no Palestinian state has much of a chance of succeeding without a guy like him.


If you read Abbas' speech to the UN, he makes it clear that the PLO is the "sole representative," making it clear to delegates they aren't voting for Hamas. I'm sure that didn't go over well with the boys in Gaza, but that's business as usual.

I feel the same way about Palestine as I do about Israel...politics aside, the day that the governing powers that be take their marching orders from God, it's hello failed state. I'd prefer a military junta of technocrats over an elected government of old men in beards with disdain for science and reason, no matter what their state religion is.

That's my main beef with the anti-Islamic alarmists. The world can point at the corrupt fundamentalist Islamic states and most of the criticism is warranted, but I'm under no persuasion that a fundamentalist Jewish or fundamentalist Christian state would be any different. A lot of Africa is infected with this thinking. Too many people single out the Islamic regimes, but not the other religious nutters that feel justified in their own brand of barbarism.

Zimbabwe and Uganda are full of fundamentalist Christians a bit shy in the education department that think they are doing God's work too when they burn gay people and ruin their own economies or tell people eating turnips will cure HIV.

If a future Palestinian state became a fundamentalist religious one, you can be sure the educated secular people who actually make society run would flee, just as they would from Israel if their bearded kooks took over.