Pakistan to execute Christian mother who verbally insulted Muhammed

First, I wasn't thinking about you when I posted that. I was thinking of some of the posters who are very quick to say they are "extremely disgusted" when Israel is not condemned in a resolution, etc. etc. Some of them posted in a bunch of other threads, so it's not like they weren't active in this sub-forum.

So you are saying people hold back their opinion if they think other people will agree with them too much?

That's silly. I think you are inadvertently sugarcoating it.

I think that the truth is that they do not want to talk when they can't be outraged and point fingers and claim moral superiority. That's why they would much rather talk about Israel.

 

As a second generation Pakistani-American, I'll be the first to admit that Pakistan is no doubt in a sad state of affairs.

I can only hope that the suspects are caught and justly punished for this horrific act.

RIP

 

No one on this board thinks this is not an atrocious act. I don't find the need to actually post on here that I'm disgusted by this act. But if it makes you feel better by me actually saying I'm disgusted then fine, "This is so disgusting!"

Happy?

The Israeli thing, there are actually posters here who support certain things Israel does which are as heinous as what terrorists in Pakistan are doing. There are two sides to that debate.

 

I've only been to Pakistan twice, both for short periods of time with family, but I'm thinking of doing a solo joint Pakistan and India trip soon for at least six weeks - this time as an actual tourist.

I'd be interested in possibly filming some sort of documentary in Pakistan, capturing the opinion of the everyday people regarding news headlines such as this.

Could be interesting.

 

Could be interesting - I have never been to Pakistan, but from all I have read I am not sure that this could not even be dangerous, too.

 

I'd have an armed soldier with me at all times. :grin:

 

Can I come?

Btw I remembered that you started a thread about problems with Indian visa. I think they are on the brink of relaxing it due to pressure from an international standard setting body. As with all these things, this may be tomorrow or next year, but it's definitely in the works.

 

ATW is right, this is absolutely disgusting. What's generating little debate about it is the fact that everyone unanimously agrees that this is horrible. I don't think that takes away from the level of disgustingness.

As for comparisons to the Israel topic, it's laughable to even bring that up. There is genuine debate about the morality and ethics of both Palestine and Israel, whereas there is no debate here. If anything, less debate means more agreement. If we started a thread about how murdering children is a bad thing, you would either get no replies, or a whole bunch of "duh", "nuff said" non-sense.

Personally I'm happy that there is no disagreement over this, and I'm confused as to why a disagreement needs to be artificially created in order to create artificial debate about whether this is even debatable. I mean, come on ATW, it's ridiculous if you say there are people who don't care about this or agree with this action but are not speaking up. That's just not realistic.

 

I actually was just approved for my Indian visa the day before yesterday.

 

A lot of people in Pakistan apparently agree with this action. Just remember the polls and the reports about the murder of Salman Taseer. A lot of people in Pakistan welcomed the murder. Unfortunately, this is not only realistic, but the reality. Remember these gaylords?



Supporters of Pakistani religious party Sunni Tehreek chant slogans in favor of accused assassin Mumtaz Qadri outside an anti-terrorist court in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, on January 6, 2011.

But note that I did not say that I think anyone here on the board actively supports this action.

 

A lot of people are idiots. There is no justification for this atrocity. Pakistan is falling further and further into a very very dark place. And this is coming from a Pakistani...

 

I meant on the board.

I guess I must've misunderstood what you were trying to say here:

In any case, I think less debate is a positive sign. I can tell you from having met the whole spectrum of religious people that the kind of people who believe this is ok would have their entire argument prepared and would not hesitate to post it. It would be something along the lines of "when the government is not upholding the law, then it is the duty of the people to kill the people in government committing treason" or maybe even something like "Christians are not allowed to serve in Sharia governments".

Believe me, if there was anyone who agreed with this, they would not keep quiet. IMO, quiet is good in this case. I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone who agrees with the article to find page 33 of this thread and post a one-liner about how they agree. Most people will just shake their head in disgust and move on. There's not much to say.

 

Apathy and/or tacit approval not only here on the board, but also among the government in Pakistan. They refused to attend the funeral of their fellow minister.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/world/asia/05pakistan.html?_r=1

(...)

Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani was the only senior Pakistani government official to attend.

(...)

Another diplomat said that the government, which so far has proved unwilling or unable to take a strong stand against the killings, would try to offer compensation to Mr. Bhatti’s family and then close the case.

(...)

 

Too much distrust, lack of solidarity, myopia and an inability to acknowledge the dangers of increasing extremist religion, and no outside help from a powerful country/organization that can provide material aid helps keep the status quo amongst Pakistani leaders.

I know about two dozen Pakistani politicians (provincial and federal) in order to provide protection for my businesses there from the corrupt bureaucracy, and their services are not cheap. About 3/4 of them are greedy and selfish men, people who are willing to let the bottom 95% rot so long as they can afford to buy Land Cruisers and live in palatial estates with massive generators for electricity. They send their children to study abroad in the US or UK, and have little to no interest in the future of the country.

The few times I ever broach the subject of extremism, they laugh it off saying the military is invincible and that the only people really getting hurt live in the North West of the country ('and who wants to live there?'). The few who realize the direction the country is heading towards, and are brave enough to speak out almost always get killed or never heard from again.

Because of the mainstream media, there is a tendency to see only one or two high-profile killings, but read some online Pakistani papers, and the picture is even worse. Since the last two years, there has been a politician from the union, municipal, or district level of govt being killed every 2-3 weeks.

These assassinations slip under the radar, but those in the know in Pakistan hear about them constantly. It creates an atmosphere of every man for himself. Usually those killed railed against things like huge income distribution gaps, religious dogma and intolerance, lack of revenue from income taxes, corruption, no food/water for their districts, etc.

I almost lost my job a year ago when I raised the issue that my firm was facilitating major business for a defense contractor with shady ties to arms dealers. It was in this defense contractor's interest not to ask too many questions or implement measures to stop the spread of their weapons from falling into the wrong hands - people who would use those weapons against America and her allies and people in Pakistan trying to stop extremism.

In other words, there were/are extremely powerful interests in this country that profit from selling weapons to the kind people who kill moderates and progressives. Some of you might have done business knowingly or unknowing for them in the form of selling their employees a house or a car, investment advice, whatever. In today's world of multinational corporations, it's hard to pinpoint who to blame. Capital goes where it will, and we all have had our hands dirty at one point or another. It's just a matter of ignoring chaos theory or being ignorant of its powers.

And, I have seen what happens to people like Julian Assange and Pvt. Bradley Manning. The current topics trending on major sites are Bieber and iPad. I know enough about world history and politics to see it's futile to stick out your neck right now. So, I will bide my time till I can be my own man. God willing, I will continue with my plan to build good schools in the region, and I will continue making money so that in a decade or two, I will be able to do something substantial rather than being discarded to the side while my career is building.

 

dmc89, if you don't mind me asking, what type of work do you currently do in Pakistan? I've also been interested in doing development work in Pakistan at some point, but I also figured it'd be more fruitful to do so later in my career (I'm 26 now).

 

I co-manage my family's various businesses there like heavy industry (textiles and shipping), real estate, and an energy firm that sells power to WAPDA.

As far as development work, that's a future goal of mine in the next ten to twenty years where I should have an enough disposable income to build a great school there or work with an org that already has a solid footing there like the Central Asia Institute.

 

dmc89, what do you think would be the steps for Pakistan to get back on track? Do you see hope right now?

 

Very cool. Are you based in Lahore when there?