Pakistan to execute Christian mother who verbally insulted Muhammed

Ok well i have a question for were does it say not too because i found this that say (Torment to Non-believers: burn their skin black; repeat
SURA 4.56: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. so please correct me if i'm wrong but that sound like a killing to me.

 

No, don't focus on the silly bit about the beard, look more deeply to his message.

Islam and it's message are prone to interpetation, and it is message is completely convoluted.

DD

 

Please do yourself a favor, pick up a Quran, and go read the whole chapter. If you do not have one, I will gladly purchase one for you.

The verse you have chosen is correctly interpreted as :

Those that disbelieve will enter hellfire. And then it goes on to explain the punishment of hell.

The very next verse, which you managed to overlook...

4:57 But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,― their eternal home:

 

lol, its sad that you find deep spiritual messages in GlenRice's posts.

 

To be fair DD, Islam does not teach Muslims "to kill non muslims in any way they can."

No need to publicly praise a poorly thought out sentiment that you may subjectively agree with.

 

All it says is that God will punish the wrongdoers in the afterlife.

 

To be fair S land,

Islam teaches many things and it is up to the person doing the teaching what is important and what isn't......

It's message is all over the place, and changes from when Mohammed was a young man to when he was older, and his power and station changed.

IMO, It is not consistent in it's message which is a good portion of the problem with it overall.

1. That is funny, I don't find anything spiritual at all.

2. His message has just as much value to me as the Koran, as they were both written or spoken by man.

Only his message was much more clear, and not prone to misinterpetation as the Koran is...

DD

 

Gee, thanks, that's so much better!

 

As a Muslim, I'll admit that I haven't read the entire English translation of the Quran.

Have you?

Or are you basing your conjecture on the opinions of another party's conclusions?

Just curious.

 

I have not read the whole thing but read enough to make my own value judgement on it's content, especially when considering the historical context in which it was written/spoken.

If you choose to believe, I have no issue with that, it is your choice, I choose not to believe.

Everyone makes their own judgements.

DD

 

Fair enough, I don't disagree with you that everyone makes their own judgments.

I just don't agree that someone should be judging, either positively or negatively, a book they haven't read in its entirety.

We all make snap judgments in life all the time, but forming strong opinions on these snap judgments is something I don't particularly agree with.

 

If I read something that to me is obviously fictional, and regurgitated from previous religions, and reads to me like it was created by man to control the masses, I have no obligation to continue to read it to make the judgement.

If those are your standards, fine by me, they are not mine.

DD

 

I judge the book partly by the actions of its (self-proclaimed) most fervent followers. This may be "unfair to the book"...but then I look at parts of the book...and they seem to be in line with what these followers do...and then it doesn't seem that "unfair to the book" anymore.

 

Since I haven't read the entire English translation yet either, I would be very interested in reading a "book review" of the Quran written by you.

I'm not saying I think it would or wouldn't change your current opinions on Islam at all, I'd just think your take on the entire book would be a fascinating read.

Heck, it can be the first book of "ATW's D&D Book Club"! :grin:

Spoiler

I'll even rep you 72 times.

 

Imran Khan: "Pakistan is imploding."

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Besides drinking in moderation, I consider myself a 'fervent follower'.

Some points I'd like to throw out:

I've read the the entire book both in Arabic and English several times, I've taken extensive undergrad and post-grad courses on Islamic theology in addition to various intro world religions classes besides the Abrahamic faiths, and I was re-introduced to the faith after 22 years of agnosticism in which I studied everything from particle physics to epistemology.

90% of people don't have anywhere near the background of studying the arts and sciences as I do, so I'll just say that you're selling yourself short by not independently studying something that disturbs/fascinates/annoys you so much.

Islam encourages the pursuit of all knowledge, and to never shy away from anything that challenges a Muslim's faith.

All of nature follows Islam, and it has been the message since the beginning, but because of distortions, the message became a game of telephone over time. You can see shades of Islam's beliefs in almost all the major world faiths, but because of politics, man's arrogance and inflexibility, a non-Muslim would never admit this nor a Muslim admit he embraces parts of another faith.

^It's all just petty arguments over what to label something, and that's missing the point: the oneness of God.

Islam's biggest thing is belief in one God. Everything else is secondary to it, and that includes the types of sins (getting high now and then).

That being said, God is unhumanly merciful and (unhumanly) omniscient. Deep down, I believe ATW and DD are good human beings. But their exposure to Islam was a negative one, and being the good people they are, they reject something they believe is bad.

The God who I fear and worship so much (should) have the sense to discern what their intentions were - which is another big deal in Islam: intention or niyat. He will eventually forgive everyone who rejects Islam because of its bad rep since they weren't introduced to it in the right way.

And the above is why all Muslims are held accountable for everything they do. We are ambassadors of our faith. We are ordered to provide a spotless image of the faith or correct mistaken notions about it otherwise we will be punished. In other words, with the ignorant fundamentalists out there wrecking havoc on the world, it's no wrong to reject their beliefs.

Because God is the ultimate judge, no man has the final say on who is the better Muslim or a true believer. What happens to the good Inuit in the 7th c. who was far from the Middle East and never practiced Islam? Or Mother Theresa? Again, God is the only judge, and you have to have faith - no pun intended - that he'll do the 'right' thing.

I plan to make this a separate post in the D&D because it's critical given the PR status of Islam.

 

Islam doesn't deny that it has parts of older religions in its message. Just like an OS has bits of old code.

If Christianity emphasizes love and forgiveness, what's wrong with that message in Islam?

 

Great post.

 

Nothing if that is all that is said.....that would be great, heck it would be great if all religions only had that message.

DD

 

Good post.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dmc89 again.