Pakistan to execute Christian mother who verbally insulted Muhammed

You're right, this would take ages. But, out of fairness to people who will read your post, I have to shoot these comments out off the top of my head:

1)

- The first human was created from "clay".
- We are created from clots and sperm dots (see: biology).
- The "nothing" creation does not exist in 19:67 (does man not remember that we created him before, AND he was not anything before then), or 52:35 (which asks IF they were created without there being anything driving it). I'm happy to discuss the arabic with you. But since I lack credibility, feel free to ask how to say "nothing" in Arabic, and you will be told it's "Laa/Wala Shay" which does not show up in these verses.

2)
A. Very clear.
B. The liability refers to the liability of being forced to worship Pagan idols (no compulsion remember?).
C & D. If you are not aware of the nature of these two verses after the amount of times they've been explained to you, then you are truly prejudiced and ignorant. Those are commands to fight the 'Pagans' who are imminently going to kill all Muslims DURING spiritual pilgrimage because they refuse to be pagans. The Pagans who are making Paganism compulsary (no compulsion remember?).

Btw, the word pagan isn't really in there. It says "Mushrikeen". The word "Mushrik" means associater. It refers to associating anything non-divine to God.

3) Muslim comes from Islam. Islam means giving up or submitting. It refers to submitting to what you believe to be God's will. They are all Muslims. Nowhere does it say Muhammad, Moses, or Jacob are the first Muslims because Adam is the first Muslim.

A. Read the preceding verses of the chapter. I'm not going to spoon feed your stupidity and irresponsibility.
B. He is the first to believe out of his tribe/people. The message of the Torah came for his tribe/people. Regardless, I'm not sure he is aware that he is not the first believer at that juncture. That's a quote from a man, who may be wrong. God is not saying that Moses PBUH is the first Muslim.
C. Unrelated. I think your source ran out of ideas.

4)
A. I'm not sure this is true, I would have to look it up.
B. The word "forgive" does not exist in this verse. The word they translated to "forgive" actually means "excuse" or "give mercy". The word for forgiveness is "Istighfaar" if you would like to ask someone.

5)
A & B. Correctly say His decree does not change.
C. Says the verses which transmit the decrees are the same or better. So murder is always a sin, but the verse is repeated in the Torah, Gospels, and Quran in different ways to actually fit.
D. This one is talking about you lol I don't see how it's relevant?

6)
A. It says his CORPSE will be maintained.
B. It says he drowned to death.

7)
A. Forbidden during your life because alcohol affects the body.
B. Not forbidden in heaven because we don't have bodies. It is a different realm. It is a metaphor to say that heaven is everything you ever could imagine wanting - we don't have mouths, stomachs or brains to give a damn about alcohol in heaven.

That was so easy. I know this will sound like I'm being a douche, but I mean this very sincerely: thank you so much for that. I truly enjoyed it.

Can I ask where you got this list from?

 

I LOLed at this whole post. It is a prime example of someone just twisting things around in ridiculous fashion to "make it fit". Totally brainwashed.

 

Btw Dada,

I don't believe in religion either and I'm not against the idea that the Quran may be created by men. However, I need actual evidence rather than chain emails and biased websites.

Admittedly, your ability to 'know' the Quran is greatly affected by your inability to speak Arabic. But the problem is you don't seem to believe that you know as much about the Quran as you know about Angelina Jolie's private life >> whatever the gossip section says.

 

Always whining, never anything to back you up.

Feel free to point out the twists. Knowing you, I won't hold me breath.

 

I would pay good money to see you two meet each other and duke it out.

Anyone else?

 

Well, I AM in Germany hahaha

Honestly though, we discussed getting a drink or something but I'm just very pre-occupied with some things here.

 

I'm too bored to go through all of them, as it is like explaining algebra to a primate, but let me just pick one out:



7.Is wine consumption good or bad?
A.O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
B.(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
C.Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

Your answer:

You can't have it both ways: If you "don't have a body", why would you want alcohol in heaven? Your way to "make the statement fit" is that you say "oh yes this is because we don't have a body". But that doesn't solve it - if you don't have a body, why would you want alcohol?

I don't even want to go into the details of it - for me, a few things are painfully obvious:

- Like the bible, the quran was written by men, in order to keep people in check and to give them a guideline to life. This might have been done with really good intentions for the most part, and probably was.
- A lot of what is in the bible and in the quran is practical and pragmatic life advice, tailored to the time when it was written: pork used to spoil really fast without fridges and people got sick and died from it, so it was forbidden with some religious reasoning. Alcohol obviously led to people behaving like idiots and probably to diseases and deaths, so it was forbidden with some religious reasoning. At the same time, people enjoyed it and felt it was something desirable, so they would say "oh in heaven you get a lot of it".

Why make it out to be more than that and try really hard to twist things so that you can tell yourself there is no contradiction? Of course there will be some contradictions, as useful a guideline as it may be, it was written by several men over a certain amount of time and that will just lead to that. Same with the bible.

 

I am in Italy right now. But will be back in a few days and happy to meet you. I'll buy the beer and the pork chops for you .

 

It would be epic you guys UStream'd this.

 

I also already mentioned that I will be in Dubai in December, no reaction so far .

 

Or you could UStream a D&D debate, with adeelsiddiqui as moderator. :grin:

 

You DON'T want alcohol. There is no alcohol. It's just an illustration.

Just like God doesn't have hands or a face or a throne.

If heaven/God could be described without these illustrations, don't you think we would eventually be able to create it?

There is no food consumption in heaven. The 'presence' of wine in heaven is just to illustrate that a moment of pleasure during your lifetime is dwarfed by the 'awesomeness' in heaven.

It seems you have this childish idea that people will be sitting around having glasses of wine in heaven lol.

 

I will still be in Germany till late December. When are you going to be there exactly?

I'll have the beer and porkchops if you read the Quran!

 

That is funny...and typical of all religions, find an oppressed people, promise them that if they suffer they will rejoice in heaven.

Nevermind that no one has been there, and actually knows anything about what heaven is or isn't.....but in their made up mythology based upon years of others mythos passed down and then warped to their own political agenda at the time, it must be true.

I mean, that is hilarious.....suffer now, rejoice later, and let me hold your purse.

Awesome....I need to start one...

DD

 

Do you think that NOT drinking = suffering?

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=193366

 

I think your roundabout excuse making for made up religions is laughable. People go to great lenghts to explain away the modern things that make the original text seem written by uneducated goat hearding peoples.

Got to shoe horn in those excuses, lest people actually figure out that the text is contradictory and made up.

Yes, Scotch is good, and made by God's own hands.



DD

 

Just what I thought, not a shred of an argument.

Your problem is clearly with mass religion, and your hatred for it is so deep that you're incapable of separating it from anything related to it.

Even your one paltry comment is completely unrelated. There is no suffering involved in not drinking. There is no church/mosque holding the purse in this discussion.

Sorry bud, you got nothing. You will never bother to find the root of things, but you will happily accept the religious beliefs inherent in the articles you copy/paste - as long as they match your prejudices.

Thanks again!

 

Like the part with the 99 virgins?

I actually don't.

But what remains is that clearly, wine is described as something desirable and to be avoided at the same time.

Just like women.

That's not my issue, though, I can see how that came about. My issue is people trying to jump through hoops to "make it fit" - if it doesn't make sense, it is just a metaphor, etc. etc. Seems so silly and unnecessary for someone of your intellect.

 

Religion has nothing, not a shred of proof, not one iota that it was inspired by god.

Nothing, just made up gobbly gook that folks follow to explain the unexplainable.

You sir, got nothing.

DD