WOW! You're a great negotiator. I think you just came up with something that all the Pro/Anti-Cato fans can agree on. He sucks so bad, that he's actually benefitting the team. Who'd a thunk it?
I just brought balance to the universe. Anyhow, if Cato plays close to how he did in the preseason, he's probably an all-star, or fairly close to it. If the Rockets were as high on Ming as they seemed to be, I'd think there'd be a considerable market for an all-star/near all-star that is 6-11, 255 lb. center, in the prime of his career, under contract for another 4 years for around what your average center makes, no?
Okay then, how about this 3 way trade with Orlando & Indiana? Houston sends Cato/future #1 pick to Orlando. Orlando sends Buechler (expiring contract) to Houston. Orlando sends Miller to Indiana. Indiana sends Foster/Artest to Houston. That gives us a serviceable backup center, a defensive SF, & Buechler's expiring contract to make the deal work. Orlando gets their center & a future #1 pick. Indiana gets a Miller to replace a Miller at SG.
If you can Trade Cato. DO IT. We can resign Willis for next couple years to play center and teach Yao how to bang. Cato sux and his only use will be for Yao to abuse during practice. I would trade Cato for Miller in a second. Miller is the perfect 3 on our team, he can stand around and knock down threes plus he can backup Mobley.
Oh boy, how did I miss this one? The Magic aren't trading for Cato. Their frontcourt situation is not dire enough to trade a prospect like Mike Miller, a player who the Magic love and have big plans for down the road, for a soon-to-be backup and always overpaid center in Kelvin Cato.The names being bandied about are of players who are better and have more potential than Cato - Fortson, Mohammed, Swift, and so on. Cato wouldn't be an all-star in the East; he'd have to pass Mutombo, O'Neal, Mourning, Wallace, and Ratliff for starters. He's probably not even better than Tony Battie. Not to mention that his contract would kill the Magic's chances at Duncan next year. They may take a gamble, like Doc says, but not one that costs them that shot at a big name free agent next year. Plus, Mike Miller really doesn't have a spot on the Rockets. For one, he'd be a backup at SG or a temporary starter at SF, considering the players the Rockets have and drafted to play there. He has two years left on his deal and at that rate, he'd leave after they were up. But, I feel strongly that the Magic will not be trading him this offseason....any moves will be minor in nature. They've acquired all of these ending contracts for a reason - and it's not to trade away for a player like Cato.
i dont like cato. i think hes a huge underachiever with a giant contract making big money for underachieving. that being said, i wouldnt do this trade. we need cato the most right now. yao is in no shape to play an entire game and i would prefer not to play collier big minutes. hes a stiff. i would only trade cato if we can get another big man who can play minutes and help yao develop. seriously...the 2000 draft...langhi/collier....ugh
Hottoddie, First, yes, Cato is that valuable right now, but he's more valuable to us than to anyone else, because he allows Yao to develop at a reasonable pace. More than anyone else in the league right now, we need a solid backup who can play significant minutes, because we need to get the most return on our investment in Yao. Even Yao's most ardent supporters acknowledge he'll need time to develop. Put too much load on him in his rookie year and his development will be hampered. If we don't move Cato, in two years we will likely be sorry we didn't because of the cap space he'll continue to eat, but we'll be glad we didn't because he allowed Yao to become the best player he could be by not rushing him. Next, my point about Cato putting up a consistent 15/10 was that even if he reached that lofty goal, people would still be trying to trade him. Amend that to say sometimes it seems like even if he put up 50 pts/30 boards some people would still try to trade him. My point was that his productivity has increased and our need here has increased, so why all the talk of trading Cato for what amounts to a backup guard (which are easy to pick up anywhere for the minimum), a fourth small forward, draft picks or, as some have suggested, a bologna sandwich? As for Miller backing up our guards, it's a luxury we don't need and (capwise) can't afford. Miller's a starter or a sixth man. We have three small forwards under contract and Cat and Steve are young and they are going to play extended minutes. For as many minutes as possible I want Steve and/or Cat out there instead of Miller.
Cato isn't going anywhere, why would we trade him? He isn't the best Center, but Ming can't play the whole game, and the Rocks would much rather have Cato play then Collier and Willis. Ron: I wasn't trying to clown you, but why would anyone trade their 1st round pick for Collier.
I am surprised it took you so long to respond as well. I never said he'd be an all-star, just that he'd dominate the little guys. It was, however, meant as sarcasm towards Cato. The article that I've attached to the end of this post hints at the possibility of Orlando giving up on acquiring Duncan. It's dated a week ago, but from what I'm hearing Griffith & Hunter aren't faring too well. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...rl-sptmagic07070702jul07.story?coll=orl-magic Quest for help quite taxing By Jerry Brewer | Sentinel Staff Writer Posted July 7, 2002 During the next two weeks, the Orlando Magic may be forced to either reaffirm or abandon their plan to add a big-name player during next summer's free-agency period. The future and present have coexisted the past three years as the Magic cleared cap room to land Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill, and then waited for Hill's ankle to get healthy while trying to clear more cap space for a 2003 free agent. Now the Magic must improve a team that has not advanced to the second round in the past two NBA playoffs. As frustrating as that has been, imagine another early exit. But the Magic have no cap room to acquire a top player from this summer's mediocre free-agent class. And they fear having a team salary of more than $54 million, which would trigger the league's dollar-for-dollar luxury tax. Even without a plan for 2003, the Magic would have trouble making improvements to their current roster. "More importantly and directly, there's the tax issue this year," General Manager John Gabriel said. "That's the big issue, more than storing nuts for next year." So the biggest move the Magic make this off-season might be a trade for a center or power forward who could alleviate their greatest weakness: a lack of inside presence. Trade scenarios have the Magic looking to deal for an established, rugged post player such as Golden State's Danny Fortson, Chicago's Marcus Fizer or Atlanta's Nazr Mohammed. Such a move -- unless it's for Fizer, who still has years on his rookie contract -- would probably mean the end to those hopes of acquiring Tim Duncan, or any other top player, in 2003. Gabriel's biggest strength may be his ability to make deals today while also keeping tomorrow in mind. But everyone in the Magic camp, including Gabriel, who absorbs most of the criticism for what the Magic don't have, is growing tired of tomorrow. By the end of the summer, several potential 2003 free agents could be signed to contract extensions. In addition, Duncan has repeatedly said he wants to stay in San Antonio. Though the Magic will be under the cap in 2003, they still might not have enough money to add a third maximum-salary player (Hill and McGrady are max players) plus have capable role players. As it stands today, the Magic are committed to more than $29 million for 2003, but that only includes four players: McGrady, Hill, Steven Hunter and Jeryl Sasser. The Magic have team options for Mike Miller, Andrew DeClercq and Horace Grant, who will certainly retire after next season if he doesn't this summer. And, when thinking about their 2003 cap situation, one must consider that the Magic probably will give restricted free agent Pat Garrity more than a one-year contract this summer. It's also likely that re-signing free agent Troy Hudson or finding a point guard to replace him will mean a multi-year contract. If the league does not increase the salary cap, the Magic would be faced with a serious problem. For now, Gabriel is trying to juggle today and tomorrow, but soon he could be faced with a decision, especially if big men Rashard Griffith and Hunter do not fare well during the Magic's summer camp this week. If that happens, they almost certainly have to make a deal. "We've just got to finish off our roster," Gabriel said. "We're going to get better. We will do that. We hardly ever stand still."
Folks the team does not have a clear weakness at the moment. According to Chad Ford, the rockets are all set. We are not going to give up a significant piece like Cato to fill some useless backup sg. It is plain dumb. Sometime I wonder if some of you understand what the goal is. We have to be able to match up with Sac, Dal and Lak. Why would you give up Cato? Is he bothering you? Appreciate the asset you have when Jerome James is being wined and dined in NYC because they do not have a Cato. The message is clear, CD's work is done.
With all due respect, I must point out that Cato's numbers increased over his previous year's numbers, which were so much lower than the year before, that it appeared he improved dramatically this year. When, in fact, he didn't get back up to the numbers he put up 2 years ago, with the exception of his rebounds. He did have that stretch of 10-15 games where he was getting a double double or flirting with one every night & that was exciting. However, he went back to being inconsistent after that & along with the rest of the team, appeared to have quit by the end of the season. I'm sure you've seen them before, but I've attached the link to Cato's career stats to show his less than stellar career. Also, Cato's been in the league for 5 years & will be 28 years old, going into next year. Personally, I think Cato's as good as he's going to get, unless he gets a heart transplant. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kelvin_cato/index.html?nav=page You may be right on this point. I was just suggesting Miller, because he would offer us the versatility to play both the SG/SF positions. With Rice coming off of his injury, we won't have any guarantees that he'll remain healthy. His history indicates that he's always been healthy, but he's 35 years old. If he were to reinjure himself, that would leave us with Nachbar/T-Mo at SF. Nachbar hasn't proven anything yet & T-Mo hasn't proven that he can shoot the ball with any consistency, yet. I did propose an alternative trade idea, which would send Miller to Indiana & Indiana would send us Artest/Foster. That'd at least give us a defensive SF & an adequate backup center at a greatly reduced price.
Commercial: "Kelvin Cato, you've just lead your team into the lottery. What are you doing this summer?" Cato: "I'm going to Disney World!"
Hottoddie, I've seen the article, yes, but no one is buying it. Most of this "quest for a big man" has been media-driven without much evidence out of the Magic mgmt. other than vauge quotes. No, Hunter and Griffith haven't been doing too well in the summer camps, but the Magic like what they have at PF in Horace Grant, Ryan Humphrey (who has fared pretty well this summer), and Olumide Oyedeji and still think Hunter can be their center of the future. At the very worst, Hunter is an athletic shot blocker at center making around $1.25 million next year. He may not have the size Cato has, but he can still play center in the East and the only thing that has been hindering him in the summer camps is his knee that he had operated on about a month ago. I think they'd take the chance with him over Cato anyday....especially with the PF position looking good for now.
The problem with this idea is that Hottodi expects anything of Ming this season. If you haven't been reading, Ming hasn't set foot in practice yet, and he's fatigued. He's worn out RIGHT NOW AT THIS INSTANT. Now, if he was NBA conditioned, maybe. But consider this: He still has another tournament to play, after which he'll come immediately to Houston and continue playing. Don't get your expectations high. The guy will struggle very very very much to play 25 minutes a night for us. Not all of it will be productive either. What you don't realize is, Cato is still the better C this upcoming season. Also, Mike Miller? Off the bench? No way. Boki can do anything Mike Miller can do. Mike Miller won't get any minutes at the 3, and you think he'll be happy with the minutes behind Mobley? Do you know Mobley was top 3 in minutes per game this apst season? Even if he goes down to 38 minutes, Miller will get 10 minutes at SG and 2 at SF for a grand total of 12. I don't think so. If you're trading away Cato, make sure you're getting rid of KT and Mooch as well, while getting a C that gives what Cato gives or more, and a draft pick. Here's a deal I thought out. Basically, Cato and KT go to Orlando to play PF/C. Mike Miller goes to Atlanta. While we get Nazr Mohammed. Now that definitely doesn't work out salary-wise, but that's the basic deal. Something like that, I'd be fine with. Getting out of Mooch's contract, getting rid of our logjam at PF (KT) and getting a C who can play 30-35 productive minutes a night. I'd be willing to take on a backcourt player playerr with a bad contract to make this deal work. We'll need some depth there. Maybe Dion Glover? I think he's on the rookie scale though. ANyways, it's not smart to go into this season without a C who has started and has shown that he can. Cato can start, and he showed it last year. This is NOT his highest trade value. He'll improve on it too. Reports are he's already working out with the rest of the Rockets. Maybe he's planning on a breakout season? The only way we trade Cato, is if, during the season his stock soars and we can get a C and a backup SG in return for him and KT. Again, don't be naive. Don't expect anything from Ming this season but learning the speed of the game, and the toughness, and stuff like that. Don't expect him to produce this season.
Hottoddie: Check those games where Cato got the double doubles and look at who's playing point guard. Two things: Cato doesn't create for himself and Moochie and Cat aren't interested in creating for him. And when he's not involved, he's not as aggressive a rebounder. When Steve was in, feeding him alley oops, he was productive. I don't think he'll average a double double, but -- assuming he gets to play a full season with Steve -- I don't think we've seen his best numbers. Six and six aren't his max stats. Ten and ten are. I'll be happy with 6/6/1.5, 24 minutes and six fouls, though. Then again, if you can turn Cato into Artest and Foster I'd consider it. Artest gives us something we don't have on D and Foster's not terrible.
Okay, I'll try not to be so naive next time, if you'll go back & read my second post (7th overall) where I expanded on the original idea & offered a list of some possible FA centers that we could pick up by using the mid-level exception. My mistake was assuming that it was assumed we'd pick up a FA to fill in. I also modified the original trade idea, by sending Miller to Indiana, while Indiana would send us Artest/Foster. Foster's numbers are comparable to Cato's, with the exception being the blocked shots & each player's salary. You can see that post towards the bottom of the first page.
Now THAT, my friend, is a good trade. But do you think Indiana will go for it while they still have Brad Miller(5.5M)? I'd LOVE to have Artest. I've always wanted his type of game on our team. His defense makes everyone else play D too. If we could add a 3rd team with cap space, this trade could work. Maybe Chicago is interested in adding a veteran to help with otuside shooting and leadership for a year only?(Rice) I'd love to see Artest playing 30 minutes a night while backing up the 2 and the 3. But we'll have to get rid of a SF, and Rice is the likely candidate. I like your idea though. The FA centers aren't that great. Unless we can get Jerome James or Keon Clark for 5M or LESS.
I think you misunderstood the trade proposal. Cato would still go to Orlando & M. Miller would go to Indiana. Indiana would be insane to trade Brad Miller away. Here's the trade: Houston sends Cato/future #1 pick to Orlando. Orlando sends Buechler (expiring contract) to Houston. Orlando sends Miller to Indiana. Indiana sends Foster/Artest to Houston. With the addition of Mike Miller to Reggie Miller, & Brad Miller, Indiana's new slogan could be, "It's Miller Time". Just think of the endorsement that the Miller Brewing Company would give, if they went deep into the playoffs or won it all. Too bad this deal most probably won't happen.
Just think if they traded for Andre Miller from Cleveland and pulled Oliver Miller out of retirement to play PF -- Miller to Miller to Miller to Miller to Miller.
Well that's betetr than what I thought. We'd probably have to throw in KT though. Orlando wouldn't trade Mike Miller and an expiring contract(Duncan money) for Cato and a future 1st from the Rocks (we're not lottery anytime soon). But if we throw in KT, we'll have given them a C to pair with Duncan, and a PF to warm his spot till next year.
