The player's union will understand it was a business decision. You mean like that nasty cut over one of the referee's eye, it was a water/beer bottle that got him. Ron Artest could have had his eye ball busted.....and the NBA would still suspend him for 30 games. It's all business. Like many on this board, lots of fans feel Artest shouldn't go after the fan under any circumstance. Stern doesn't like to piss off fans. You wouldn't either if you are running the franchise.
Your answer: According to the Pacers site: 20 games - 1/6 - SA or 1/8 - DAL 30 games - 1/26 - Boston or 1/27 - Detroit (at Indiana)
if those suspensions are real then that is pretty pathetic that jerkass pistons fans can basically ruin the pacers season. actually, it's bull**** they can get them suspended at all. i know you have to be the bigger person if you don't want to get suspended but basically no pistons had any chance of getting suspended b/c it was their own fans. it's not like they would fight them. so indy had the only chance of getting suspended once artest went while. jackson and o'neal were just helping artest at that point. we'll have to see if those are the real numbers. they have to get suspended, but 15, 8, 8, 5 might be more like it. of course, since i assume the suspensions will be staggered somewhat they'll be missing guys into february w/ those lengths.
so what site has the best indiana pacers message board. i wanna see what they think about all of this.
hi smeg, would u be able to tell me the link address to your bbs pls? have u got the fight clip there? thx in advance.
Of couse Wallace should get some of the blame but If the fan had not thrown the beer at Artest and Artest had not gone into the stands would this even be news? The answer is no, it would just be another NBA fight or pushing game. It probably would not even make the ESPN highlights let alone international news. Artest and the fans that participated should get most of the blame.
Agree 100%. If this is how David Stern rules, he only encourages more violence by making the Detroit fans the real winners. They have knocked Indiana out of contention while their team goes almost unpunished. The Pistons as a franchise should lose five 1st rounders very like the punishment for team abuse by the Timberwolves. Fans of other franchises now know how to eliminate their top rivals using boorish behavior. Indiana fans will be heaving water bottles with abandon. They have nothing to lose either.
Saturday, November 20, 2004 By Marc Stein ESPN.com the natural response to the deplorable behavior of Detroit's unruliest fans would be to lock out every single fan on March 25, when the Pacers make their next visit to the Palace. ESPN Link I think it would be great if there is a fan lockout when the Pacers return to Detroit on March 25th. Do not allow the fans the chance to incite another potential debacle.
Oh please. The Pistons shouldn't be punished for what the FANS did. And its the PLAYERS who chose to go up there and really start the mess. And NBA arenas are not going to start getting any more aggressive than they already are unless other PLAYERS are as stupid as Artest and co. I like the number on the suspensions and hope they stand(and I think they will)
Agreed 100%. If had just ignored the cup of beer and walked away, like I am sure he is tought to and encouraged to do, then this mess never happens. BTW Clove, if Yao had done that, I'd be even more upset because he could have just cost my team their season, rather than a team I could care less about. And Yao would almost the same suspension that Artest did (of course, Yao's would be less because he doesn't have the history of Artest).
Then my premise will hold, and crowd violence to eliminate competitors in the same way will escalate. Also, Ben Wallace is getting off too lightly. His was the pivotal role in inciting the crowd toward violence. He threw his headband at Artest and the crowd responded by throwing whatever they held in their hands. He also went into the stands and kept the melee going. Everybody agrees that Artest should be punished for going into the stands, but the riot would not have occurred without Wallace doing the shove and continuing the incident instead of just taking his foul shots and finishing the game.
Feigen had a great article today: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2911370 Mob mentality rules in rush to defend Pacers No room to argue this one, folks: Players lost out when they went into the seats By JONATHAN FEIGEN Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle A few years ago, when Kobe Bryant was getting knocked around pretty good, he sent a message that he was willing to fight back by throwing a few punches. Rudy Tomjanovich, then Rockets coach, was asked if sometimes a star player has to take such a stand. Tomjanovich sort of smiled, shook his head and said simply, "You're asking the wrong guy." But he was wrong. He was exactly the right guy, and he said just the right thing. Tomjanovich offered a subtle reminder that he nearly lost his life and all that it has brought him since a punch that smashed his face on a basketball court. With those few words, he made a point that seems long lost. Sometimes, the toughest and bravest thing to do is to do nothing. Sometimes, it takes more strength to walk away. The Indiana Pacers could not. They were provoked. The behavior of Pistons fans Friday night was inexcusable. The fans who rioted, and especially the dopes who took it to the court, were morons who should face criminal charges. Throwing beer or worse on players is inexcusable. But the lesson the NBA was supposed to have learned while Tomjanovich fought for his life was that a punch can come close to killing. A player who goes into the stands to retaliate, even if there is something as outrageous as the behavior Friday, is out of control. The damage he can cause can change a life — probably not a fair trade for getting hit by a plastic cup. ESPN's Tim Legler and the apologists sitting with him called the players' charge into the stands "justified." It might be wise not to cut him off in traffic, but if he was reflecting a player attitude, he might have revealed an attitude that must be addressed. "I think it's justified what he did," Legler said, practically congratulating players for their action. "Any man is going to react the same way. Any player in the league would react the same way." No they won't, and no they didn't. Not every player treated horribly reacted the way Ron Artest did Friday. And as much as Artest is commended for staying out of the fight when he reclined on the scorer's table, he also went from zero to 60 in the time it takes to light a match. But beyond that, the NBA can and must make it clear that retaliation is not acceptable. A mob mentality is not justified. Years after the Kermit Washington punch and his 60-day suspension, the league toughened rules, and players have learned not to leave the bench area when there is a fight on the court. Hockey players, models of decorum and restraint that they are, have learned not to be the third man in a fight. Leagues have shown they can change behavior. Fans should be punished for criminal stupidity. The NBA can beef up security to control fans, install more surveillance equipment to catch them and place awnings over tunnels that lead to the court to shield players. But the league must make it clear that no matter how idiotic and cowardly fans might be, escalating violence is not "justified." Here's an easy guideline to follow: Players stay out of the stands, fans stay off the court, and the next time one of these things even hints at starting, teams should hit only the door.
BOTTOM LINE..... Artest had enough sense to walk away from a guy who just PUNCHED HIM IN THE THROAT!!!!!! That being the case, how can you say a plastic cup crossed the line???? Because the guy who may have thrown it wasnt as big as Wallace? Artest should be expelled from the league permanently...he showed 2 weeks ago that he could care less about the game when he asked for time off to tend to his music...the game needs to show him that it could care less right back.
Its not reasonable to assume that a retaliatory shove after a hard foul is going to incite a riot. To the best of my knowledge, retaliatory shoves happen often, and not once have they led to a riot. It is reasonable, or at least, much more reasonable to assume that 3 visiting players charging into the stands of the home team is going to incite a riot. Thats why Artest/Jackson/O"neal will get hit much harder than Wallace will. Much harder.
Guys....Stern HAS NOT ANNOUNCED ANYTHING regarding suspensions....where are you getting this info on the punishment?
Codell, you are forgetting that the shove didn't end it. He continued to go after Artest, thereby becoming the touchstone for the riot. His headband toss was copied by the crowd -- only they didn't have headbands in their hands.
