You can disagree all you want, but thats not how the NBA handles things. Thats why they suspend players who break the law outside of the court (for DUIs and ganja offenses). If the NBA was all about making the fans happy, they would only discipline players for on the court infractions. Artest gets suspended because he charged into a crowd and assaulted, what looks to be, an innocent fan. And if you physically assualt an innocent person in a bar, whether you think that person is the one who threw something at you or not, then I promise you that charges will be filed. The law does not paint the term assault with a broad brush like you are and neither does the NBA. No he didn't. He charged the fan because he wanted revenge and he was angry. It was not self defense. That fan was not a danger to him and it looks like the NBA agrees with me. There is a difference between assault with a cup of water and physical assualt. One action does not necessarily legally allow for a more severe reaction, in real life or the NBA. Here is the State of Indiana's legal definition for self defense: " The protection of one's person or property against some injury attempted by another. The law of "self-defense" justifies an act done in the reasonable belief of immediate danger." That fan was not attempting to injure Artest and Artest had no reasonal belief that he was in immediate danger. You are missing the point of reasonable reactions to different forms of assault in the eye of a court of law. Shoving someone to the ground is not seen as equatable to having water thrown on you. I definitely feel the fans are to blame somewhat, but if Artest doesn't go into the stands, then a thrown cup of water hardly gets mentioned. Artest overeacted and his actions clearly had the most demonstrative affect with regards to escalating the whole mess. The NBA sees my point and thats why Artest was just suspended for 30 games.
What does that have to do with this? Are you really comparing Artest's situation to our troops in Iraq?
No I'm not. As it wasn't a part of my "serious reply". Our initial reason for going into Iraq was self defense, like 5), into hostile crowd. Apparently right now, we are attacking the wrong country(for 9/11), like 6). It was a part of my smartass answer I didn't expect people to take too seriously. Codell, I have read your long reply. I really don't think we can continue our discussion without getting really frustrated. Let's just leave it. How about that "win" today? I was really scared in the fourth. Tmac just saved my day. I'm still frustrated at the way we are playing, but hey, at least we won. Go Rox.
This poll is interesting. http://post.polls.yahoo.com/quiz/quizresults.php?poll_id=1953&wv=1 Go here to vote: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba
http://msn.foxsports.com/story?contentId=3179442&print=true About 5 paragraphs down...complete bull$h!t that Artest got that long out for defending himself and Wallace only gets 5 for starting it!?
Sign language These Indiana Pacer fans show their support for Ron Artest prior to the start of the Pacers-Magic game at Conseco Fieldhouse. (Ron Hoskins/NBAE/Getty Images)
i bet indiana if those #s are correct in the msn article may just try to tank the season and land a high draft pick (chris paul anyone?) because they wont be going anywhere with their top 3 scorers out at least 20 games. maybe just give up this season and build for the future much like how the spurs did to get duncan
Thanks for the link. I heard the initial report on ESPN radio, so no link was available at the moment.
How would this board react if one of the following happens: Lets pretend Karl Malone is still playing for Jazz. a) Yao gets choked by Karl Malone. Yao meditates on the scorer's table. Malone throws towel. Fan throws beer. Yao tackles fan. You know the rest. b)Yao chokes Karl Malone. Malone rests on scorer's table. Yao throws towel at Malone. Fan throws beer on Malone.....you know the rest. lol, interesting.
A riled up crowd in Detroit = A riled up crowd anywhere. People do predictable yet shocking things during free-for-alls. We'd have gotten the exact same IF NOT WORSE fan response in Houston last year during the Malone-Boki exchange if some fan had thrown some beer/popcorn and Malone charged the stands. There was already HATE in the Toyota Center. There were people screaming pretty nasty stuff. 16,000+ with road rage. 95% of the people on this BBS would not have hesistated to unload a beer (or worse) on Malone's head if he was pounding on someone in the stands. Of course, this wouldn't happen at a reg season Rox game. Those seats behind the bench are empty.
Imagine if this had happened in Philly or something...it would have NEVER ended! Those Philly fans get insane.
lol. The stadium remain seated and quiet while Stockton is punching out Clutch, while malone punches out a cheerleader. The Jazz fans didn't know what to do with the chinese giant in the stands. TV annoucers spend 2 and half minutes rubbing their eyes and searching for words. "wait, did I, no, is that, can't be....., bill, pinch me." Bill Walton:"we are witnessing the greatest birth of the greatest center in the history of human kind. Ladies and gentlemen, Yao is going to dominate from today on."
ESPN legal analyst Roger Kosack said it best. There's no way the self defense strategy is gonna work in court. He got hit with a cup of liquid, and charged into a mass of drunken fans. He went right into the hornets nest. If he were really concerned about self-preservation, he wouldn't have done that. The issue is clearly about blatant disrespect. Unfortunately, I don't think that defense is gonna fly either.
Those suspension numbers, I would think, are not going to go over well with the player's union. I mean the league, host city and stadium security are all supposed to stop anything like this from happening. Yet, when they failed to do thier job and a drunken fan tried to physically harm a player on the court, Artest had a right to relaliate IMO and now the league is coming down with this extrememly long suspension. In a season with a cloud of a lockout looming in the distance, this had to be the worst thing to happen. This is going to cause a rift between the league and it's players and it's going to get bad. Here's another hypothetical: Let's say that everything still went down as they did, but the ONLY difference is that the bottle hit Artest in the eye giving him a serious injury and, in turn, ending his career. Would the fans and league be more sympathetic and understanding of where Artest was coming from?
