I have no problem with Jackson's suspension. This incident is not going to help the negotiations for the new CBA.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this the one that every1 saw. I mean its the live feed every1 saw on tv right?
You've got to realize NBA is a business, just like WalMart. I agree with much of what you said, but from the business stand point, Stern has no other choice! Many on this board will feel the suspensions handed out is not nearly enough, business aside.
What is really interesting is the results of the criminal/civil courts. There you don't have consequences to worry about, not as much as NBA court anyway. My predictions: Artest: I really can't see him getting charged with anything. Again, will the legal experts please speak up. JO and Jackson: Potentially getting charged/settle out of court. Pistons: gets sued for lots of money by their own fans. NBA: gets sued for lots of money by Detroit fans. I'll remember this event for the rest of my very long life.
You're like my brother or something. I've been telling people this all day, how little Ben is actually getting blamed for all this. The way things are looking, he'll probably get the LEAST time suspended out of everyone. Despite being the instigator of the ENTIRE situation, IMO.
ESPN also has it on the ESPN motion video player. Also there is a post game interview with Wallace. Just amazing. Those fans deserved to get their asses beat. Artest was lying down and contempt until nailed in the grill with a cup full of beer. Can't be surprised about the fans though, this was in Detroit.
The NBA tends to look at things similar to a court of law by judging what reactions are appropriate and inappropriate. EXAMPLE: If Wallace had punched Artest instead of shoving him, Wallace would have been suspended, and Artest wouldn't have. If in a bar, Artest would have just thrown a cup of water at the fan instead of physically assualting him, he is clean and I doubt the NBA would have had much of a problem with artest throwing water back at a fan. The bottom line is, someone throwing a relatively harmless item at you is not grounds for physical assualt, in the NBA or in a court of law. Just like shooting someone because they punched you is not grounds for self defense. The self defense argument doesn't work here for several reasons. 1) That fan was not coming at Artest 2) That fan was not attempting to hurt Artest (he was attempting to piss him off more than anything) 3) That fan's ammo was basically gone (unless he started stealing other people's beverages, which was probably a very remote possibility) 4) The fan was clearly separated from Artest by a great distance. One can say all day long that "well, Artest didn't know that at that time" and unfortunately, thats not an excuse. Just like its not an excuse me to say "I shot that guy because I thought he was going to kill me after he shoved me to the ground". I don't need a legal expert to tell me that. And I never said they shouldn't. They are unruly drunks fans who will riot when given the chance. Artest is the one who gave them that chance, and he should have been above starting a riot over a thrown beverage. Under no circumstances is having a beverage thrown at you grounds for charging into the stands and starting a riot.
Those fines will be reduced on appeal, no doubt. Looks like the NBA specifically invoked long suspensions so that when they are appealed, the suspensions that are left will still be long and able to send a message. I would say that Artest and Jackson end up with 15-20 games, O'Neal about 10 and Wallace between 3 and 5. Jackson should probably get the worst. He threw the first punch and then egged on the crowd to keep throwing debris when security was clearly trying to keep the crowd under control and get his teamates off the floor without being hurt by thrown debris.
i think some one should make a video of the brawl with some music. like with the videos of the nba fights. i think the old WWF DX entrance theme would be perfect for this. or maybe the remix with RUN-DMC . just an idea
The only fans who have grounds for suits are 1) The fan that Artest mistakenly attacked 2) Any fans that Artest ran over to get to the guy 3) The fan who O'Neal blasted I think Artest could have the fan who punched him from behind charged. I think Jones could have the fan who punched him from behind charged. I think the NBA could sue the two fans who came on the court for trespassing. And I think the NBA and the Palace of Auburn Hill has grounds for permanently barring all of them from arena events, including anyone who threw debris. but lets be honest, the police probably don't care about charging fans who through beverages and popcorn with a crime. I doubt the NBA and Detroit can be sued in a court of law, but that doesn't matter, because they are going to automatically lose in the court of public opinion.
Good job. The player's actions can not be tolerated now or in the future. Stern has to protect the NBA as a whole. Getting a beer thrown on you is absolutely no reason to charge the stands and incite a riot. How can that not be clear? Artest is a fool.
Question? Codell, you don't think that the police, NBA, and Detroit District Attorney are looking at tapes (local and national TV and affiliates) of the fans that threw things at the players/coaches? Maybe a few private charges will be issues against them even though they really weren't on the court. I'm sure a bunch of them were detained after the game (gave their identity to the law enforcement there).
Because all Ben did was shove Artest in retaliation for a hard/unecessary foul. Happens everyday in the NBA. Wallace didn't instigate Artest going into the stands, a fan did. And he didn't instigate that fan throwing something at Artest either. Im actually suprised that Wallace got the suspension he did. If Artest hadn't gone into the stands, then Wallace's retaliatory shove probably goes unoticed by the NBA, with the exception of a fine. IMO, Wallace should have gotten a game or two, since one could make the argument that Artest's hard/unecessary foul could make him look like the instigator.
That has been documented. THe police seized tapes of the incident from the production trailer. I can guarantee the fans who threw punches and trespassed onto the court (probably not the ones who threw popcorn and beverages though) will be charged when/if they can be indetified. And I am sure the NBA will bar the fans who threw punches AND debris will be barred from the arena in the future and/or have their season tickets revoked.
I agree with your comments re Wallace. All he started was a garden variety NBA scuffle. He did not (from the tapes I've seen) intentionally incite the crowd. The 10 games suspension is a little harsh.
Codell: I just disagree. NBA judges players to keep NBA fans happy, within law. Artest gets suspended because that's what most fans want, also to set an example. If someone at a bar throw a cup of beer at you, and you pin him down on the floor, I don't think you should be charged with anything. I agree. However Artest only pinned the guy on the ground, to prevent other objects to be thrown at him, like a chair. Again, not ok to tackle fan in NBA, but court could be different. I just disagree with this right here. We've already discussed this. I have a feeling I really can't change your mind. We'll just have to agree to disagree. You are right, you don't have an excuse to shoot him. But you should have the right to pin the guy on the ground so he doesn't shoot you. Especially after that guy had made threats and acted by shoving you. I probably misinterpreted the following quote, or you didn't exactly mean what I thought you meant. Look, I think Artest and fans are equally to blame. Outside of NBA, I know this is a big change of a very important condition, I feel Artest had done nothing wrong. You and many others obvious feels otherwise, I just can't really see your point. I'm sure it works other way around.
Exactly. But did Wallace fight during the riot? I can't tell. Would that have to do with the longer suspension if he did? People can try to blame the fans for this, and yes it is wrong to throw objects at players, but this is not the first time fans have thrown things at players, and it won't be the last. It hasn't caused players to attack fans and incite riots before. Artest violently overreacted and attacked the wrong person in the process (according to reports). This can not be tolerated. It's the player's job to know this type of stuff comes with the territory of being a professional player. If they can't handle it, then they have to pay the consequences.
NBA franchise and Piston franchisee can be sued. Just like WalMart can be sued. I think there will be plenty of law suits filed. Remember the old lady? The lack of sufficient security at NBA games/Palace can be used as grounds. Most of them will probably settle out of court though. Is there not a single legal expert on this board?
To add to this (from my previous post): 5) Artest went INTO a hostile crowd instead of away from it. 6) He attacked the wrong guy. Hard to claim self-defense when you attack the wrong guy. I pretty much agree with everything you've said in this thread.
5) We are in Iraq right now. 6) We are in Iraq right now. I know, not a very fair comparison. Serious reply: All past arguments/discussions by me had ignored the fact that Artest went after the wrong guy. I was arguing just to argue. I was really just arguing that if it was the right guy...I thought we made it clear somewhere in the last 20 pages.
