ESPN showed a different video this morning, shot from farther back, that shows who threw it. Unless I completely saw it wrong, it was the guy in the blue Wallace shirt wearing the white hat next to "the guy Artest pounded" that threw it (the one who grabbed Artest from behind and threw punches as well). So yeah, the guy heckling who got pounded is probably going to get one big payday for this.
Let’s be reasonable. The flagrant foul has nothing to do with the brawl. And it even wasn’t that bad. Artest had no idea his foul would lead to this. If you want to say he shouldn’t have gone into the stands, fine. But flagrant fouls don’t lead to brawls with fans, fans throwing things at players do. And that’s where the incident started. While I agree that Artest shouldn’t have gone into the stands, if someone threw a beer at you, most of you would react the same way. I know they make a bunch of money, and dealing with rude fans is part of the job, but Artest had already been assaulted by Ben Wallace, he was already upset, what do you expect. So while it may be right for Stern to come down hard on him, you really can’t be that disgusted by his actions. Stephen Jackson on the other hand is an idiot. As far as fans running on to the court, everything’s fair game then. Think about what happens when someone runs on a football field. Remember that guy who got absolutely blasted by Ahman Green when running onto the field in a Monday Night game. Or remember the Astros jumped on that guy who attacked Billy Spiers (it may have been another Astro). Fans who run onto the court get what they deserve.
some1 repost the video links? they dont work anymore i switched just as the time ran out, so i missed the whole thing...damn anyways...i stil ldont know excatly what happeend cause this thread is so damn long i just skimmed thru looking for video links...
Seeing the footage of the child crying, when the camera pulls back, it looks like the father (or another relative) of the child is the same guy who sucker punched Fred Jones from behind. There's plenty of blame to go around, but even my girlfriend was more disgusted by the fans ugly behavior than that of the players'.
The correct response when he got hit with the cup would be to stand up, point at the guys that did it, and notify security. Everything that he did after that was not self defense. He was the aggressor. He lost control of his emotions and he bares a bulk of the responsibility. I would suspend him forever. Lifetime ban. Never play NBA basketball again. Good luck in Europe you POS thug. The fans that threw punches or cups or water should be arrested for assault and rioting. They should use all of ESPN's cameras to identify the individuals and then hunt them down and arrest them with criminal charges. I then think the players should file civil suits against the fans that misbehaved. Harsh all around.
You are exactly right. I noticed that too. I hope he enjoyed watching that over and over on ESPN today.
I feel bad for Artest because he reacted to the incident better than I would. From I saw, after getting the beer thrown at him, Artest went running into the stands to see who threw it, possibly to get the guy arrested. He didn’t just go into the stands and start wailing on the first guy he saw. It was not until another person threw a cup of beer right in his face that he started getting aggressive. And I don’t blame him. You can only push a man so far.
MAN this brawl brought back memories from when my dad took me to Philly Flyers games back in the 80's. i remember one brawl whcih lasted 45 minutes and they had to bring in the riot cops. lol. and also memories of my highschool days where fights like this would happen almost every week. i love this game so much
I think the real message today is: The fight should be a lesson to all the fans who leave games early to beat the traffic. You never know what you might miss.
It also pisses me off that the cop threatened to pepper spray Artest and not the fans, at least that were caught on camera.
Crazy, crazy, crazy...I saw this over and over again, couldn't help it...THe fans were freakin' nuts, but it got way out of control...The players were just reacting, but should have been more composed, in my opinion...I know that's easy to say in hindsight, although given the situation, I bet everyone would do the same thing all over again...All this because a couple of fans got drunk and PO'd... Lawsuits galore, fines and suspension, absolutely, better security, you bet...
I can see the lawyers preparing the defense right now of the two big guys (possibly brothers?) who came after Artest on the floor: "Your honor, my clients are innocent. When the potluck buffet rained down on the court, they saw 2 or 3 french fries and a Twinkie, that witnesses state could have been up to 65% whole, unclaimed. In their human pursuit of nourishment, Mr. Artest physically assaulted them."
Artest is the one that should be blamed the most. If it was Reggie or some other good guy had involved this incident with Ben Wallace, there would have not been beer/water bottole throwing happening. This has a lot to do with Artest past, bad ass reputation. What did Artest choose to lay on the table, that was pretty provoking to me. Would anybody else other than Artest or Rodman do the same thing? If Artest chose to retaliate against Ben Wallace who pushed him really hard, I would have a lot more respect for him. Instead of fighting to protect himself from a powerful athelet , Artest chose to fight agains the little bottle throwing weaker fan. That was a really weak and sissy action. The second one who should get the most of the blame would be "the fan" who threw the bottle to Artest. I wouldn't say the other fans who got involved in this do not deserve any punishment, but if has to be to a much lesser degree. If you think SJackson and JOneal's actions are repectable since the intention was to protect their teamates, you can't really fault then the other fans who were helping their fellow fans from a notorious NBA player's attack.
I think this article form the Indy Star best sums up the whole situation though.... Unreal! This NBA altercation got completely out of control Bob Kravitz Indianapolis Star November 20, 2004 It was, by any measure, one of the most disgraceful moments in the history of the NBA, and one of the worst, and most frightening, in the history of professional sports in America. The beer will be mopped up and the debris will be swept away soon enough, but the echoes from Friday night's horrible scene at the end of the Pacers-Pistons game will sound for many weeks to come. The question now is this: How will the NBA clean up this terrible mess? How does the league find fairness in a situation where nearly everybody acted wrongly and, in some cases, criminally? Even without further review, we know these things will happen: • Detroit's Ben Wallace, whose overreaction to Ron Artest's foul started the whole mess, will get suspended, probably for five games. • Artest, who showed admirable restraint during the early moments of the fiasco, will be hit the hardest for retaliating and running into the stands to confront the fans. Even after he escaped the stands, he cold-cocked a Pistons fan who had come onto the floor. We're talking 10 games, minimum. • Stephen Jackson, who came to Artest's aid and was clearly the most supportive and aggressive of Artest's teammates, also will be looking at five to 10 games. And there will be more. A lot more. From the Pacers and Pistons, from the NBA and from lawyers representing some of the fans who were caught up in the maelstrom. There were no arrests Friday night, but that doesn't mean there won't be arrests down the road. This one will not end for a long time. "It's the ugliest thing I've seen as a coach or a player," Pistons coach Larry Brown said after an infamous night that turned into the Throwdown in Motown. (Oh, yeah, the Pacers won . . . like it matters). How did American sports come to this? How did a fairly routine NBA altercation turn into the kind of riot we more often associate with minor league hockey? And where -- where -- was the security at The Palace of Auburn Hills when thugs disguised at fans tossed beer and cups at Artest? Where were they when Pacers players, led by Artest and Jackson, charged into the stands and engaged those clowns in a barroom brawl? Where were they when Pacers players and coaches were coming off the court -- the rest of the game was smartly canceled after the riot -- and fans threw even more cups and chairs on their heads, endangering livelihoods, endangering lives? Before NBA commissioner David Stern does anything else, he has got to hold the Pistons' organization accountable for the way things got out of hand Friday night. How much of a fine is enough? The damage is done. The trick, now, is making sure this never happens again. Clearly, Detroit needs more security and/or better security, and that's probably true for almost every sports venue in this country. The foul that started it all was nothing flagrant, nothing terribly violent. Shoot, by Artest's standards, the late foul on Ben Wallace was a love tap. It was a foul, a garden-variety NBA foul at the end of a hard-fought game between the Pacers and Pistons, but nothing out of the ordinary. The Pistons' center was guilty of a terrible overreaction, and he should get a serious fine and suspension. That said, he can't be blamed for what happened next. As both teams stood around, posturing and taunting the way NBA players are wont to do, Artest reclined in an almost comical manner on that same table. On this occasion, he was showing great restraint, resisting any temptation to retaliate against Wallace or join the fray nearby. He couldn't hold back, though, when debris and beer started flying into his face. What Artest did next, going into the stands to confront the fan, was human nature. Who wouldn't do precisely the same thing? At the same time, though, his actions cannot be condoned in any form or fashion. It doesn't matter how he was provoked. While we might understand what inspired Artest, we can't condone it, and the league won't let it pass. It may seem unfair that this was started by Wallace and escalated by fans, yet the Pacers will be hit the hardest by the NBA. But, then, how can you argue? They went into the stands. End of story. The fear now is what happens Dec. 25, Christmas Day, when these two teams meet again, this time in Indianapolis. Maybe, by that time, things will have settled down between the two organizations, but fans, even the highly civilized ones who fill up the fieldhouse, have very long memories. This can't happen again. Although, we know, somewhere, somehow, it will
This is just idiotic. For the first time, at least I've ever seen, Artest tries to get away from the conflict by laying down and doing nothing. Then some dumbass fan decides to throw something. Fans need to realize that they have boundaries as how far they can get into the game and to the players, coaches, and staff. SWhy is laying down and doing nothing provoking? He was trying to stay out of the conflict and then bam some idiot decides to throw something. That comment about it being somebody else doesn't matter, the fan shouldn't have thrown the item, whether it was Ron Artest or Yao Ming or any other player. A player's past gives you and nobody else the right to assault them. The fan's went overboard as fans usually do. I do think, however, that Jackson and O'Neal went a little too far.
YEAH I WAS THERE. IT was Philly against Toronto. Tie Domi squirted water at sum guy and the dude tumbled into the penalty box. LOL
C'mon.... so he's guilty simply because of his past reputation?? He "deserved" to have a full bottle of beer thrown at him?? Nobody deserves that treatment, unless he was giving the finger to all the fans, or egging them on. He was lying down in order to ensure that he wasn't goin to try and fight with Wallace (at that time, all the blame/suspensions/fines were going straight to Wallace... all Artest did was foul hard). Sure, it was a little cocky of him to lie down righ there on the scorers table... but if I'm an Indiana fan, that's exactly where I'd want him, rather than trying to charge at Wallace like a caged bull, while his teammates hold him back, and Stern probably suspends him for his "reaction." As it is, there's no excuse for him running into the stands... but if somebody threw a cup of beer at one of us (and this person had nothing to do with us... they just didn't like the "looks" of us)... we'd all react in a similiar way. They're human first... professional athletes second.
