Saying racial or homophobic comments or slurs among your buddies who don't take it personally is okay. As long as your friends are not offended by it and as long as you don't mean to be racist or homophobic and you’re only joking than I think it is fine. My problem is if you say something like that in the public. Ozzie Guillen is a public figure who knew he would get into trouble if he said the *** comment. Athletes get paid millions of dollars to play their sport and are supposed to act as role models. Why say something in public that will tarnish you and make you look like an idiot?
One other thing. You seem to continually justify your stance by painting those with a differing opinion as 'oversensitive.' However, my position doesn't come from my own sensitivities. I was like you for a long time, but my graduate work had a lot of cross over with linguistics, communications and gender studies - those studies are what I draw my opinions from - not my buddy sitting next to me.
I guess you find this amusing and that's sad. But it wouldn't matter. First, you can find a hostage that says their captor is ok (Stockholm Syndrome) and a battered wife that says their husband isn't responsible for their beatings - that doesn't make it right or true. Second, it's possible that your buddy may be empowered by inverting the term but that also doesn't translate into its general usage being a good thing.
No, I just know my gay friends say it, I have said it around them, and I didn't even know people thought that one word was a "bad" thing until this. Maybe *** on the street is different than *** in the graduate class. It's not empowering. It is what it is: GAY. The thing is Ozzie used it as a derogatory term, an insult. If he would of said "gay" it would of been the same thing. It is not the word itself that was the problem, it's how it is used. It's just like the Seinfeld episode where they ad "not that there is anything wrong with that" after someone reports they are gay and they don't like it. Genius. It was the only way that could of been shown on tv. It's all about context. I also think the word *** is gayer than the word gay, and that's where the real "problem" lies. It's really just more suppression and fear.
I think we're disagreeing less that it first appeared. If a Brit said he was going to smoke a *** that wouldn't be in the realm of what I'm criticising. Likewise if you said "don't use the word *** as a derogatory label" I wouldn't say "HEY! Stop using the word '***'....oops darnit I just used the word!" Using '***' as a derogatory label is not a good thing. That is what Ozzie did. That is what Fatty says he does. As for the 'street' vs theory, there is plenty of literature that delves into the effects of discriminatory discourse and dehumanizing language. Just because a person is not personally offended by a term does not mean its usage is without detriment. Your declaration that *** is gay doesn't make much sense. It has been predominately a derogatory term. That homosexuals have picked up using it in a non-derogatory way is a way to empower themselves or at least a bulwark against the dehumanizing aspects of the term.
I thought Fatty was just saying he used it for a word for gay, I didn't read all of his posts. And I thought people here were saying you shouldn't say it at all. Oh well I guess I assume too much. Time for bed. later.
No I didn't. Are you really accusing my friends calling me "***" is the same as Ozzie used it? You're really all over the place to save your argument.
"Guillen also told Couch that he has gay friends, attends WNBA games, went to a Madonna concert and plans to go to the Gay Games in Chicago." _____ Ozzie attends WNBA games... GET OFF HIS BACK
Even more pathetic, "in his culture", according to Robbie Alomar, if someone calls YOU a ***, it's ok to spit in their face. Guillen's an ass clown.
"I don't know if it's paranoia or what....It sounds to me like he has some issues. Maybe he can get some help about that." -- Phil Garner Awesome.
I'll drop in my two cents on this matter. I'm personally of the opinion that language does NOT create reality but rather reality forms the underlying basis of much of language. What Ozzie said was wrong and if anyone on this thread is trying to actually justify that, they're just out of their mind. Using language that refers to homosexuality as an insult reflects a problem not only for that person but their broader environment because people still call each other "gay" as an insult all too often. When HayesStreet critcizes our linguistic choices, I think he's criticizing the fact that using identity terms in a negative and insulting fashion is what helps contribute and maintain social problems like racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.. As for using that language among your friends, that's a tricky question that can't be answered on the surface. For example, calling your friends and vice versa "gay," doesn't necessarily mean much because you are after all friends and everyone involved understands each other. HOWEVER, using that term even among friends can also be like stockholm-syndrome. You can be using demeaning and even insulting language that most people would deplore and no one there realizes it. Just like when a bunch of KKK klansmen get together and start blurting out blatantly racist statements to each other in private. It doesn't make them right and I think everyone here would call them out on that and say that they are idiots. Making equivalent homophobic remarks, in my opinion, would be something that should be rejected or at least acknowledged. Either way, linguistics is a tough field and there are very few black and white situations. I think it would probably serve everyone better if we didn't call each other out because many times its almost impossible to know all the facts and backgrounds behind specific situations.
