Francis and Mobley are miles ahead of Marbury and Penny. Penny can't even be counted to play for more than a week-- and you think those two can stay with Shaq and Kobe the way we did? Get real. Their frontcourt is slightly better? Rodney Rogers better than Kenny Thomas? Hmm... last I checked their frontcourt consisted of Tom Gugliotta, Rodney Rogers, John Wallace, and Bo Outlaw. I'd take Kenny Thomas, Eddie Griffin, Kevin Willis, and Kelvin Cato way before the Suns group. In fact, any sane NBA fan would I'd guess. Their overall depth is better? Let's compare the key bench players: Suns: Rodney Rogers, Tony Delk, John Wallace, Bo Outlaw Rockets: Kevin Willis, Moochie Norris, Eddie Griffin, Walt Williams Willis is better than Rogers. Moochie is better than Delk. EG is as good as Wallace. Outlaw is a little better than Walt, but nothing significant. Houston has a huge coaching and chemistry advantage. Yeah, seems like the Suns have a lot going for them against us...
Something that I can't figure out is, how did this help the Clippers at all? The L.A.Times is reporting that it's a salary cap move for next year. The Clippers receive Del Negro with an expiring contract of $2.275 mill, they give Orlando the option to swap second round picks in 2005, they receive an undisclosed amount of cash from from Orlando, & they send nobody out. They then, waive Del Negro. All they did was add to this years payroll. Next years payroll will be where it was going to be anyway. In addition, they'll end up with a lower second round pick in 2005. The cash doesn't help the team's salary cap situation at all. Am I missing something here, or have the Clippers slipped back into the stupid GM moves of old? Someone, please help me pull my head out of my a**, because I don't get it. http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-000091827nov17.story?coll=la-headlines-sports CLIPPER REPORT Del Negro Acquired, Waived By Elliott Teaford The Clippers, Phoenix Suns and Orlando Magic completed a three-team trade Friday that, in the final analysis, appears to benefit the Suns most of all. The Suns got forward Bo Outlaw, a first-round draft pick and cash from the Magic. Orlando got forward Jud Buechler from the Suns. The Clippers got guard Vinny Del Negro from the Suns, cash from the Magic and gave Orlando the option to swap second-round picks in 2005. The Clippers promptly waived Del Negro. Del Negro's best seasons are behind him, but he might have helped in the short term because backup point guard Keyon Dooling is sidelined because of a sprained left ankle and forward Lamar Odom is serving a suspension for violating the NBA's antidrug policy. Odom missed his sixth game since he was suspended Nov. 5. By participating in the deal, the Clippers helped the Pacific Division-rival Suns beef up a weak front line. When the Clippers defeated the Suns last week, Phoenix Coach Scott Skiles bemoaned the fact that his team took only three shots from inside the key in the second half. Outlaw isn't a big scorer, but he gives the Suns a presence around the basket. The Clippers' moves were made for salary-cap purposes for next season, the team said. * Another day passed without the Clippers receiving word on when Odom would be reinstated. Coach Alvin Gentry said for a second consecutive day that he believed Odom and the Clippers would learn something early next week.
I believe, the reason why Clippers did this deal was to take on Del Negro's $2.275 mil salary. I can't remember where I heard this from, but there's a penalty for being way under the cap, and it's said to be higher than what they're paying for Del Negro right now. Smart move by the Clippers.
If they had waited until 2003, they would have found no suitors for Outlaw. Look at how much they had to give the Clippers to get rid of Derek Strong to clear the room to get both McGrady and Hill. Plus, he was no factor for the Magic this year, and thus became expendable. Fans in Orlando aren't happy with the move, because he was one of the fan's favorite players. But John Gabriel has made similar moves in the past and reaoed the benefits - and who is to say another deal isn't coming? This much I know - Mike Miller is going nowhere. If anyone, it'll be the trade exception they got and Pat Garrity or another scrub bigman.
mfclark-I would assume Orl barely had any suitors for Outlaw RIGHT NOW with all they had to give up to trade him. I don't think they could have had much worse of a deal in 2003 than they do now.
Phoenix beat LA with a total team effort. Marion, Rogers, and others had good games. Marbury and Penny were part of a collective effort. Almost no one besides Steve and Cuttino stepped it up against the Lakers. In the last six minutes or so of regulation, it was basically Steve and Cuttino vs. Kobe and Shaq, and they held their own, and actually came from down 3 to a tie game. Marbury and Penny had two breaks: a tired Lakers team and a great collective team effort. Francis and Mobley had neither, and they had a better performance than Marbury and Penny did.
Huby_n1, I believe that you're mistaken on this. I checked on the CBA & it doesn't directly state that there is a minimum team salary, but that they have to have at least 11 players either under contract, unrenounced FA's or unsigned draft picks at the rookie minimum salary or higher. So I'm still confused as to why the Clippers participated in the trade. Here's the rule from Coon's CBA Faq. 32. Let's say a team arranges for all of its players to become free agents at the same time. If they renounce everybody, do they then have a salary total of $0 and a full cap under which to work? No. First round draft picks count as team salary (against the cap), unless they are renounced (covered in question number 30). In addition, if a team has fewer than 11 contracted players, unrenounced free agents, and unsigned first-round draft picks, then an amount equal to the rookie minimum salary is charged for each empty roster spot fewer than 11. For example, if a team has three players under contract, two unrenounced free agents, and one first-round draft pick, the total number of players is six. Their team salary is charged for the five remaining roster spots to take the total to 11. For the 99-00 season, since the rookie minimum salary is $301,875, their team salary would be charged a total of $1,509,375.
Living in AZ, I see a fair amount of the Suns (though now I have League Pass I don't always half to) Stevie is a better overall player than Marbury. Cuttino is a better player than Penny. As a pair and within the team concept the differences between them probably widens even more. I do think Delk is a better 3rd guard than Mooch, in fact sometimes he gets time at Penny's expense. Overall, I and think just about anyone else in the league, would take the Rockets triumphant over Phx's. But the Suns front line is better, mainly because of 1 guy, Marion. We don't have match for him (hopefully Eddie will be better than him over time). Though KT is starting to distingush himself, no other front line player on either team does nearly as much good things on the court as Marion. If both teams stay relatively injury free I think we will be the better team. Don't forget, we already went to their place and beat them. That carried just as much weight as us losing to the Lakers by a point in OT and then the Suns picking them off the very next day IMO. Also, that didn't happen much if at all when Kidd was there, they are not the equal of what they were and NJ is much tougher to beat now.
my guess is ORL and/or PHO picked up the tab of Del Negro's contract, plus gave Sterling a little extra cash to line his pockets.
CBA FAQ #7 "At the other end of the spectrum there is a minimum team salary, which is defined as 75% of the salary cap. Any team that doesn't spend at least that much is surcharged at the end of the season, and that money is given to the players. In practice, most teams' salaries will be higher than the salary cap amount." They are also penalized against their share of league revenues which averages just over $40 million per team. i think I posted something on this when they made that Purdue trade with Portland.
Courtside, Thanks for pointing out the minimum salary rule. The question still exists though. 75% of this years salary cap of $42.5 mill is $31.875 mill. The Clippers, before the trade, had a team salary of over $33.7 mill. It just seems to me that they should've gotten a draft pick out of the deal, instead of giving Orlando the right to swap second round picks with them. The only explaination that makes any sense is Nike's last post. If this is true, then it means that the owner is reverting back to (or never changed from) looking at the bottom line only. That might mean that Odom, Brand, Miles, etc..., will be available on the FA market when their contracts expire.
