I'm no one in particular, but the only way you could trade for Garnett is to involve a third team. Just find a team desperate for Yao Ming or Jay Williams with large contracts that Minnesota might want. Someone else posted this sort of trade, I believe, but the Knicks are the obvious choice. You have to make it worth their while, though. Knicks get: YAO MING (#1 pick), Glen Rice (9 million), Mo Taylor (6.5), Wally Szerbiak (app. 3) Wolves get: Latrell Sprewell (12), Kurt Thomas (6), Charlie Ward (5), #7 pick, #15 pick. Rockets get: Kevin Garnett (22). ROCKETS 2002-03 lineup: Steve, Mooch Cat, Oscar Garnett, T-Mo EG, KT Cato, Collier You might have to get creative with the center spot. And maybe sign Walt or Lee Nailon for some depth. I guess with this sort of trade, that's why it seems impossible to get Garnett. It can be done, but it'd take some doing.
this is more realistic than some of the ones i've seen but this still got it's flaws. 1. i don't think the wolves will give up BOTH wally and KG in the same season. one guy stays and one guy goes. and with sprewell, thomas, ward, and the draft picks it wouldn't be a good team either...frankly it'll be a version of the knicks but one that sucks even more. 2. all we're giving to the wolves is our #15. i think mchale will think 'what?? KG for a #15??'. realistically, we have to give up either cat or griffin. and honestly, i think steve would rather have KG than cat in a heartbeat. friends aside, nba is a business also. if you put friends before success in a business like the nba....ain't gonna do much. 3. any trades that Minn. would listen to is a trade involving at least 3 1st round picks, at least one proven player and some fillers.
I'd throw Griffin into a KG deal in a heartbeat. Griffin has a long way to go IF he becomes anything like KG. I'm talking 5 or 6 years. Personally, I think we can have a deal where the basis is 2 franchise players, and they're Jay Williams and Eddie Griffin. Those are 2 sure-fire franchise players. Throw in our #15 pick in a very deep draft, and they have a VERY good role player probably. KG for 2 franchise players and a very good role player. Of course salaries don't match, so this is where we have to throw in contracts. We'll give them KT, Mo T, and Rice. That's not so bad. KT has a short contract, and they can re-siign him if they want. He's a VERY good bench player. Rice's contract ends in 2 years, so it's not a big issue. He could be a good mentor for whoever they pick at #15. Then there's Mo T. His contract is very ugly, but he is still young, and can play a nice part in their future. Well, they have to take SOMETHING on. Those guys come up to 17M. Considering we have to trade #15 on draft day, so both picks are going to be traded on draft day. So they could possibly amount to another $4M? That's $21M. One more million? Send them Collier or Torres. It doesn't matter. But in essence, here's the deal: #1 pick (Jay Williams) #15 pick (Maybe they can move up 2 spots n grab Kareem Rush?) Eddie Griffin Mo T Rice KT filler So now, they have a VERY bright future. They can keep Wally at the 3, or trade him for another 3 since they don't like his attitude. Look: MJaxx/Nesterovic/Woods Griffin/MoT/Joe Smith Wally/Rice/KT Kareem Rush?/Peeler/Billups Jay Williams/Terrell Brandon/Billups Best they can do? Pick Nachbar at #15, trade Terrell Brandon, Wally, and #15 for Sprewell. Then, their future is set: MJaxx Griffin Nachbar Sprewell Jay Wiliams What do you think?
Well, hell, I'd give up EG for the #7, if that gave us, say, Borchardt or Caron Butler. I say Borchardt (why do I know I'm spelling his name wrong?) for depth at center, IF you can get Lee Nailon with the exception. And I think you could.
No way in hell I'd do that ROXT...Griffin, if he were being drafted this year, would easily be a top 3 pick...I wouldnt trade him for the #7..no sir.
I posted this in another thread but thought it would fit well here. For all you people who have Shaqidus let me clear up a couple of misconceptions you and many other people here seem to have about Ming. #1. All the anti Ming people like to say he will be the next Shawn Bradley. He will get pushed around in the paint because he is too skinny. Let me ask you this. What 21-year-old rookie has ever come into the NBA and not got pushed around in the paint. Well besides Shag who is a physical freak of nature. Ming is nearly 300 pounds at age 21. Nearly 30 pounds heavier than a fully-grown SB, and I’m sure he will put on more weight as he matures. I don’t think it’s out of the question to think he can put on 25 to 30 pounds of muscle in the next 2 or 3 years. He has a solid foundation, have you seen the size of his legs? There nothing like those tooth picks SB has. If he is able too put on the weight he should be a monster. Besides I think Hakeem proved you don’t have to be a 300-pound physical freak to be a great center. #2. He wont be able to help us this year. While he may not come in and dominate in his first year I think he will help us. Look at his game, it fits Rudy T’s system to a T. He’s a big man who can spread the floor with his range. At 7’6” you better not leave him open or you’ll never block his shot. Why do you think the Rockets drafted Collier and signed Mo T to such a big contract? It wasn’t because of their rebounding skills or ability to bully people down low. It was their ability to spread the floor so our penetrating guards would have an easier time getting to the basket. At worst his rookie season he will be second string and get a pretty decent amount of min. On offense Rudy will use him to spread the floor until he develops some low post moves. Similar to the way they have brought EG along but hopefully not as drastic. On defense he will be asked to stay in front of his man and keep his hands up to force people to try and go around him where, EG a very good weak side shot blocker will be waiting. Rudy’s system and Yao Ming is a match made in heaven. When Mo T started it really opened up the lane for our guards. Our offense was really starting to jell. It was because Mo T was knocking down 14 to 18 foot jumpers consistently. Even when Collier was in the game and hitting his shots our team was effective. If you watched the first game against the Lakers last year you know what I’m talking about. Collier’s jumper was on and causing LA’S defense all kind of problems. We won that game by the way. In other words Ming doesn’t have to be dominate to contribute next year, just hit his open shots and play decent defense. If he can do that the center position will be improved over what it was last year. Of course this is all just IMHO.
Roxtia, A deal where the Wolves trade both Wally and Garnett and all they get back is a 32 yr old Sprewell, Kurt Thomas, Charlie Ward and two draft picks below #7, isn't going to happen. That type of value wouldn't even get them to talk to you about Garnett, let alone Wally too. Sane, <i>Jay Williams and Eddie Griffin. Those are 2 sure-fire franchise players. </i> Two sure fire franchise players? How do you figure? I think that you're being loose with the term franchise player. Today there are what maybe 5 franchise players in the NBA? Definitely Shaq, Kobe and Duncan. Probably Garnett and maybe AI or Webber (in some people's mind). After that you've got some good players, but they aren't franchise players. You can't even qualify those two guys as sure fire all-stars. Sure, they've got potential, but so do alot of players who don't develop as projected. <i> So now, they have a VERY bright future MJaxx/Nesterovic/Woods Griffin/MoT/Joe Smith Wally/Rice/KT Kareem Rush?/Peeler/Billups Jay Williams/Terrell Brandon/Billups <i> That team is better than the one the Wolves have right now? That team is closer to a lottery team than it is a contender. If the Wolves trade Garnett, it will have to be a deal that makes them appreciably better. <i>Best they can do? Pick Nachbar at #15, trade Terrell Brandon, Wally, and #15 for Sprewell. Then, their future is set</i> Hey that's pretty simple. Of course, why would the Knicks want Brandon at $9M a year, when he's got a knee problem and is considering retirement? Then again if the Knicks are going to trade Sprewell, do you think that they would deal him for another shooting guard? Haven't they had the problem of too many shooting guards for 4 years now? How does Wally, Houston and Brandon (either retired or on the IR) make them better? If the Knicks move Sprewell, they have to get size in return.
Trading for KG is tough. Lot of contracts would have to be thrown around. Now that our mayor's involved in negotiations in China, I can't help but think the solution is: just draft Yao Ming. Because all this would be one hell of a smoke screen if we went in another direction than drafting the big guy. Pops says the team wants to get out of the first round next season. That means making a big splash this off-season. Uncertain is the future...the dark side clouds everything. Meditate on this I will.
Houston trades: 1st Draft Pick 15th Draft Pick 53rd Draft Pick PF Kenny Thomas (14.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.5 minutes) PG Moochie Norris (8.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.9 apg in 27.4 minutes) C Kelvin Cato (6.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 25.5 minutes) C Maurice Taylor (6.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 25.5 minutes) SF Glen Rice (8.6 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.6 apg in 30.3 minutes) Houston receives: SF Kevin Garnett (21.2 ppg, 12.1 rpg, 5.2 apg in 39.2 minutes) Change in team outlook: -16.2 ppg, -7.5 rpg, and -3.6 apg. Minnesota trades: SF Kevin Garnett (21.2 ppg, 12.1 rpg, 5.2 apg in 39.2 minutes) SG Wally Szczerbiak (18.7 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.1 apg in 38.0 minutes) Minnesota receives: 7th Draft Pick 15th Draft Pick 53rd Draft Pick Future First Round Pick (New York) PF Kenny Thomas (14.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.9 apg in 72 games) SF Latrell Sprewell (19.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.9 apg in 81 games) C Marcus Camby (11.1 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 29 games) PF Kurt Thomas (13.9 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 82 games) Change in team outlook: +26.7 ppg, +17.2 rpg, and +4.6 apg. New York trades: 7th Draft Pick Future First Round Pick (New York) SF Latrell Sprewell (19.4 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 3.9 apg in 41.1 minutes) C Marcus Camby (11.1 ppg, 11.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 34.7 minutes) PF Kurt Thomas (13.9 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 1.1 apg in 33.8 minutes) New York receives: 1st Draft Pick C Kelvin Cato (6.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 75 games) PG Moochie Norris (8.1 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.9 apg in 82 games) C Maurice Taylor (6.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 75 games) SF Glen Rice (8.6 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.6 apg in 20 games) SG Wally Szczerbiak (18.7 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.1 apg in 82 games) Change in team outlook: -10.5 ppg, -9.7 rpg, and -1.0 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Would this trade happen? I think all teams benefit from this trade. The Rocks get Garnett and keep their young nucleus. The Knicks get the #1 pick and draft their franchise player in Ming, also obtaining Sczerbiak as well. Minnesota gets a bunch of 1st round picks plus Camby/Spree/KT/Kurt Thomas making their rotation and bench stronger than it is now, at #7 and #15 they could pick up a gem, also if the Knicks don't do well next year they will get a lotto pick next year as well. Houston Francis Mobley Garnett Griffin (does it really matter) New York Mark Jackson/Moochie Sczerbiak Houston/Rice Mo Taylor Ming/Cato Minnesota Billups/Brandon Spree #7 Caron Butler/#15 Nachbar Joe Smith/KT Camby/Jackson What do ya'll think?
I don't know if the salaries would work on your trade, aka ace, and the sheer number of players and picks involved would probably make all 3 GMs squeamish. . . but other than that, I'd do that trade. we have to remember that any trade MIN makes involving Garnett will be to: 1) get out from under his contract, 2) get draft picks to make up for the Joe Smith embroglio, and 3) get Jay Williams. #3 makes me think MIN wouldn't do this trade without getting the #1 pick. and NY definitely wouldn't do this trade without getting the #1 pick. I'm pretty much convinced that getting Garnett via trade would be impossible. if anyone knows, I'd still love to get an answer to a question I posted earlier in I-don't-know what thread. . . could Garnett voluntarily renegotiate his contract right now if he wanted to in order to make himself more tradeable? I know the players' union would probably throw a fit, but I'm just wondering if he's legally forbidden from doing so. and I also know that he probably never WOULD. I'm just wondering if he COULD. if he wanted to. my last question: why do the Rockets want to get completely out of next year's 1st Round? I understand not wanting to have a high pick. having a high pick would mean: a) that we sucked again, and b) another year of rebuilding. but why would they want to have no 1st-Rounder at all? are they forecasting a cap problem a few years down the line? if someone could explain why they'd want to get out of next year's 1st-Round entirely, I'd appreciate that.
Yes it would work salary wise.... and the Wolves don't need Jay Williams, (Billups, Brandon) they are in need of a scorer/defensive player at SF like Caron Butler which can be had at #7. If not trade the #15 and move up to get him. I don't think Garnett will renogotiate his monster contract even if he could.
The biggest problem that I have with Ming is that he is not very strong and his people have been quoted as saying he doesn't ever lift weights. If your getting pushed around in the post by a guy James Thomas tossed around (Kristofferson), you are not going to play post in the L. There are just too many potential snags between us drafting him and him developing into a #1 kind of pick. He wants to play in NYC, what would stop him from going there as soon as his contract is up (about the time I expect him to realize his potential)? If we get the guy, I hope that he proves me, OP, and any other doubters 100% wrong. That being said, I say trade the pick. I really think that a lot of people underestimate the effect that Odom alone would have on this team. I agree that we should not trade the pick straight up for him, but LAC has a couple of things that we could really use. Rockets trade: #1, #15, KT, and Mooch LAC trades: #8, #12, Odom, and Dooling (6'6'', 2nd yr., 1/2) LAC adds Jay with the #1 and Chi gets Ming with the #2. Rox draft Hilario (#8) and Nachbar (12) Houston Rockets Francis/Dooling Mobley/Torres/Francis Odom/Rice/Morris/Nochbar (#12) Taylor/Griffin Cato/Hilario- 6'10'' 260 (#8) This is a team that will compete with ANY team in the L, and beat the majority of them NEXT year while Griffin and Hilario develop into actual stars. We win now, and allow our core to mature while winning allowing chemistry to develop. This is only a possibility should we decide to deal the pick, but I see reasons for each team to pull the trigger (and it works under the cap!). I would be thrilled with an offseason that netted us Odom, Dooling, Hilario, and Nachbar for Ming/Jay, KT, Mooch, and #15 .
aelliott, I feel you're going way overboard trying to defend the Rockets picking Ming. Eddie Griffin and Jay Williams WILL both become Steve Francis-calibre players. Eddie went through his first season, so he' not an enigma anymore, and Jay Williams has the same chance of succeeding as Francis did when he came out. That's almost FOR SURE. The reason the Knicks wuold improve is because they'd have a balanced team. Not one soon-to-be coach PG, alongside 2 SG's and 2 PF's. Brandon can still be much more effective than any PG the Knicks have. A Marc Jackson/Terrell Brandon duo would be excellent for them. Then Wally is a MUCH better fit at SF than Latrell Sprewell. He PLAYED SG this season, but he's very capable of playing SF, and plays it better than Spree. "That team is better than the one the Wolves have right now? That team is closer to a lottery team than it is a contender. If the Wolves trade Garnett, it will have to be a deal that makes them appreciably better." It's surely not better. But it will be better, that's what's important in rebuilding. You're not going to get a better team if you want to rebuild. Of course, this is assuming it's direction they're looking for. If they wanna trade KG for Ray Allen and Anthony Mason, then by all means, get eliminated every First Round till the end of time. But the team I "built" can get to where these Wolves are in 2 seasons. That's what I call a rebuilding plan. aelliott, I'm not against Ming. I'm against his baggage. I'd like my first round pick to be able to give 100%. That includes coming to training camp, preseason, and the whole season. Knowing the language well. Willing to improve his weaknesses (upper body). I'd be willing to take him outright if we didn't have to deal with his team's demands. But that's not going to happen, so let's auction off the pick to all the big etams who are rebuilding. Knicks, Miami, Woves, Minnesotta, Toronto (maybe), Blazers...
Evereyone who is up on KG, needs too step back and think. If McHale wanted to get rid of KG ad still get quality players, all he has to do is call the Bucks. Allen and Thomas fit salary wise and makes much more sense. Picture Minn with Allen,Thomas, Mason and whoever they trade wally for. Doeasn't that makethem a better team than theone with the scenerios Houston fans are proposing? The Bucks could then resign Redd or go after Davis with Robinson,KG and Cassell and they still have a very good team. If a trade is proposed, please make one that makes sense on both ends. If anyone is interested, there is a Ming Video availiable and he looks pretty good to me. You haveto download the divx player also, bu it shows what some people are raving about.
<i>I feel you're going way overboard trying to defend the Rockets picking Ming. </i> Why? Because I'm not proposing trades that benefit the Rockets and don't make sense for Minnesota? If we're going to kid ourselves about unrealistic trades, then do it right and propose a deal where we get Shaq. <i>Eddie Griffin and Jay Williams WILL both become Steve Francis-calibre players. Eddie went through his first season, so he' not an enigma anymore, and Jay Williams has the same chance of succeeding as Francis did when he came out. That's almost FOR SURE. </i> First of all, Steve Francis isn't a franchise player, so even if they become Francis level players, that doesn't make them franchise players as you stated. Secondly, there's no sure things. You can't guarentee how Jay Williams will play in the NBA, there's been plenty of great college players that didn't become stars in the NBA. We all hope that Griffen will improve, but it's far from a sure thing. <i>The reason the Knicks wuold improve is because they'd have a balanced team. Not one soon-to-be coach PG, alongside 2 SG's and 2 PF's. Brandon can still be much more effective than any PG the Knicks have. A Marc Jackson/Terrell Brandon duo would be excellent for them. Then Wally is a MUCH better fit at SF than Latrell Sprewell. He PLAYED SG this season, but he's very capable of playing SF, and plays it better than Spree. </i> Wally struggled at small forward before being moved to shooting guard, so why would he now play well there. He's overmatched at SF. Almost all 3's are bigger, stronger and faster than him. He started playing well when they moved him to the 2, where he usually has a height advantage. Give me some reason that Wally plays the 3 better than Sprewell? Sprewell is a better offensive player, better passer and he's light years ahead of Wally defensively. Tell me what Wally does noticibly better than Sprewell? Sprewell can flat out defend, Wally is one of the worst defensive players in the league. How does an injured or retired Terrell Brandon help the Knicks? Did you see Marc Jackson play this year? He was awful for Minnesota, now he's going to play well in NYC? How does being a balanced team make the Knicks better? The Lakers have been one of the most unbalanced teams for the last few years, is that bad? The main point that you are missing is that it would be incredibly stupid for Minnesota to do a deal with any team where it either doesn't get a superstar or it doesn't get cap relief. Potential is great, but if Minnesota wants to go that route, it will wait until next offseason when alot of teams have cap space to make a deal. That way they can get a comparible trade, but not have to take on any bad contracts. <i>I'd be willing to take him outright if we didn't have to deal with his team's demands. But that's not going to happen, so let's auction off the pick to all the big etams who are rebuilding. Knicks, Miami, Woves, Minnesotta, Toronto (maybe), Blazers...</i> We don't know what the actual demands from the Chinese are. Carrol Dawson said this the other day. So, if the Rockets GM isn't sure of the demands, how can you be so sure that they are outrageous? If you go back and read my original Ming post in theCabbage's thread, you'll see that I said that trading the pick was an option. The difference, from my viewpoint, is that it's got to be a great deal (not just a good one). Show me a great deal that has some possibility of happening and I'm all for it. It just has make sense for both sides and it has to make us much better (not just a little better). If Denver aleady thinks they'll lose McDyess as a FA and wants to tank next season to have a better shot in the Lebron James/Kendric Perkins lottery and they'll offer McDyess and #5 for #1 and bad contracts, then I'm all ears. That would make us much better right away and it fills alot of holes for us. Fact of the matter is, I don't believe that Denver would do such a deal, but at least there'd be some method to their madness. On the other hand trading Garnett to us, makes no sense whatsoever to the TWolves. If they want to move Garnett, they will get alot more than the stuff that's been proposed here.
aelliot- Thats what I said basically. People may call Denver a lot of things, but what they did at the trading deadline was pretty good. They got rid of 10mill from nick, 6 mil from abdul-wahad, and the overpayment of Lafrentz. What they got was a ton of capspace to work with. They still have McDyess, but if he decides he doesn't want to be around, they could ge something for him. Aelliot, that's what i was saying in reference to Garnett. The Wolves probably could call te Bucks and say we'll give you Garnett for Thomas,Allen, and either your draft pick or Mason and Milw probably would go for that. Then theyprobably coul call Cleveland and say I'll trade you the local kid,Wally for Mr Miller andthey would probably bite on that. McHale could had into the new season with Miller,Allen,Thomas as a 1,2,3 combination and feel a little better about getting out of the 1st round as opposed t take a bunch of bad contracts for mediocre players and not een making the playoffs.
