Oeilpere, as always, I appreciate your posts and your sharing with us what you've 'hoid through the grapevine.' Thanks again for the info. Having said that, tell it, Will. I think you really nailed it on the head. Athough d espite how confident Heypartner is that it's all HYPE, I think there may be hoops to jump through. Whether or not they're too much trouble remains to be seen. I don't see why the Rockets can't get most of their (our) questions answered in the
Rockets management has been able to see more of Ming than anyone else has and if they think that he is overrated and doesn't have what it takes to excel in the NBA I'm behind them. Trade the pick for as much as we can get.
oeilpere, You've confused me with this whole Garnett trade talk. I'm missing something here, let me lay it out from my point of view and you explain what I'm not seeing. - Garnett made $22.4M last season - The Rockets and TWolves are both over the cap, so if we do a deal, the salaries on each side must be withing 15% (+100K) of each other. - Neither the Rockets, nor the TWolves have a trade exception - So to acquire Garnett, we'd have to send somewhere between $19.04M and $25.76M to the TWolves. - Draft rights and unsigned drafted players count $0 in trades. - You say Francis, doesn't have to be part of the deal. Whenever I look at a potential deal where I send that much salary away from the Rockets, one of two things happens: 1) Minnesota takes on a bunch of bad contracts, all of them with at least 2 years left on them. Minnesota probably ends up a weaker team, maybe they stay at the same level, but definitely not a contender. Plus they are still capped out and attendance probably takes a hit. That doesn't make any sense from the Twolves point of view. Why would they do that? Teams are preparing to have cap space next offseason to make a run at Duncan and McDyess. If the TWolves want to deal Garnett, then it would be much more advantageous to wait until next offseason and deal with a team that has cap space. Then the 15% rule wouldn't apply and Minnesota would be able to get some cap relief. 2) The other scenario is that the Rockets basically gut their team in order to make it attractive to Minnesota and to get to $19M+ in salary. Including #1, Mobley, Griffen and KT possibly could entice the TWolves to trade KG, but then we end up with only Francis and KG, no high draft picks for two years and we're capped out. We would, in essence, turn into the TWolves, a low seed playoff team with no real chance of improving. Why would the Rockets even consider a deal like that? So, what am I missing? Give me some scenario where we trade for KG that is even remotely attactive to both sides. From my point of view, if we don't gut our team, then Minnesota would be stupid to trade Garnett to us this offseason. The attractive deals for Garnett will be there next offseason, the TWolves know this. I don't think Houston has any interest in dismantling their team. So, what would they be discussing?
Please say that AGAIN Now the #1 pick and Moochie for #2 pick and Curry or Chandler I may listen would prefer #1 and Langhi and COllier and [Rice or kt or cato or mo] for #2 and Rose Rocket River
Looks like the KG deal will not happen, unfortunately. If we brought him in, we'd be in a similar situation as the Wolves right now. I'm sure players are being discussed that we had no idea were even on the block. Remember oeilpere said that some of the deals were very attractive....
Ming's stock went up a lot in the last few months. Most recently, however, his stock has been seriously downplayed, specifically by CD and RT themselves and generally by a lot of the media out there (post Chicago workout) and by fans. Given this inaccuracy, in combination with contradictions as reported by heypartner concerning Doc Rocket, and now, Clutch himself, it becomes apparent that a lot of smokescreens are being set-up for different people here. Unless the person posting at this point is CD, RT or Les themselves (and probably not even then as they wouldnt be truthful) the news must be taken with a grain of salt. I agree with a lot of the other posts here....Will and TPL's in particular. Good stuff.
Thanks for the post OP, although I must admit that it is personally depressing to me as a Ming supporter. I don't doubt what you say about trading the pick, even with the Chronicle coming out with quotes today from CD that it would be almost impossible to trade the first pick. I could conceive that CD would use the Chronicle to spread misinformation, to drive up the price of the pick, and to temporarily appease the fans for the sudden surge in excitement over obtaining the first pick. When they trade the pick, they can sell to the fans that they did so after much review and soul-searching. Perhaps the conflicting reports stem from a misinformation campaign by the Rockets. Pro teams have a history of spreading misinformation around draft time to "gain an edge", and the Rockets are no exception. As such, if conflicting reports come from reliable sources, logic would dictate that OP's take is correct, because there would be no reason to leak that the Rockets intend to trade the pick if they are set on Ming. Another possibility for the conflicting reports, however, might be internal disagreement in the Rocket's organization. Perhaps Rudy wants Caron Butler, but Les has been listening (from Florida) to all-Ming sportstalk radio and realizes that the surge in excitement over a mysterious 7'5" Chinaman will sell season tickets going into his new building. You might be able to read this between the lines on what CD is saying about Les having the say on big issues, such as an extension for Francis, trading up for Griffin, etc. Or perhaps CD and Rudy are at odds over what to do with the pick. Excellent post, by the way, Aelliot, on the cap issues debunking the KG rumors.
I see two possible smokescreens, one on each side: A) Rockets are using the Chronicle, Clutch, et al to hype Yao and their love of Yao in order to drive up his trade price. B) Rockets are using media outlets and contacts such as oeilpere to complain about all the red tape around Yao -- including the conclusion that as a result they'll have to trade him to some landlocked little media market -- in order to scare the Chinese into relaxing the red tape. Pick your poison.
Thanks popeye, here's some spinach. I agree completely with your opinion about Ming possibly not helping this team get over the hump for a few seasons, so I guess that makes it my opinion too. The guy may be big, but he has short arms(ala Kevin Willis) and has zero build in his upper body and that is just the negative things to do with his body. Then as you pointed out he has very little experience playing against NBA caliber talent and that he has yet to prove his body can withstand a grueling 82 game schedule(something few guys over 7'2" have ever done consistently). I'm all for making a deal rather than using the pick on Ming.
The only name that is even remotely interesting is, of course, Garnett. But that's even more challenging than gaining Yao's clearance. As far as dealing with the Clips, I certainly hope that the Rocks aren't stupid enough to help them round out their roster AND give them value for 2 players who may not remain in LA anyway. By trading with the Clips, even if it were for Odom & Kandi, the Clips would benefit by: - finally finding adequate playing time for Miles and Richardson, up to and including being in the starting lineup - they would have their ever elusive future PG OR C (don't put it past them to take Ming eventhough they 'LOVE' Williams) - getting value for players that will probably leave via FA I would LOVE for the Rocks to get Odom (I'm totally indifferent about Kandi, he's Cato with more effort), but considering that his stock is down right now he can be had for a LOT less than the #1 and change.
This thread should be mandatory reading to anyone who wants to post in this main forum. With classic posts by tpl, aelliott, Will, Achebe, and CriscoKidd, a great rant by heypartner, interesting posts by Live, Relativist, and Mango & of course pop's initial post, I could read this entire thread for several months & still gain something out of it! This is why I love this place, so much! BTW - Will's last post, I feel, really hit the nail on the head (again).
What Will said. Also note Old School's link to the 2000 ESPN article. Ming is money. Also, consider the favorable whistle David Robinson has enjoyed most of his career, for being a golden boy navy brat. Now, amplify that by 1 billion people. Who wants to foul out Yao Ming? Dee Kanter? You gotta be kidding me! What "bangers" are there left in the NBA, anyway ? Any under 32? Shaq is 32. Oakley, Malone, Mutumbo, Mourning - all gone soon. That is the game from the last decade. The new game is Yao's game.
With all of the hype surrounding this china/ming/sharks/etc situation, has anyone heard what YAO MING has to say about this? What does YAO see as a potential stumbling block to signing here? I wish there was a way to find out from Yao who controls his future (as ridiculous as that sounds) I suppose we will learn more when his cousin (or whoever his agent is) comes to visit Houston this week. Don't teams usually have potential draftees in for a psychological workup and interview to see what type of person the guy is? Will we be able to do this with Yao? I think we are speculating an awful lot (and rightfully so being that its all we have to go on at this point). I want to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak. Clutch, OP, Will, Jeff...is meeting with Yao, himself, out of the question so that we can get a clearer picture of what we are dealing with?
Will, I totally agree with this post of yours and the succint analysis you had provided earlier. I would trade Ming for only Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant. Thats it. Every other offer is worthless. -Tariq
Do you realize what you just said? Kandi is Cato with <b><i>effort</b></i>. I'm really not trying to knock Cato here, but that seems to be the thing to do around here. He had a good year last year, but he's still to inconsitent. That's because he's a bench player. I'd probably still rather have Ming, but other than Duncan, Garnett(not happening), this is one of the few things I consider with a trade: LAC: Odom + Olowakandi + Clippers #8 HOU: #1 + KT + Rice + Mooch That way the Rockets still get their C, a good SF, and still get a pretty good player at 8. They could go with Tskitishvili, Gooden, Wilcox, Butler, or Borchardt here. Clips get rid of Odom, get either Ming or Jay. Now, I still don't really like this deal, but if Ming has too many problems, I could see it happening.
Absolutely. In fact, isn't it interesting that Kandi had his best year, which was still rather mediocre especially considering he's a 7'1", 270lbs athletic, young C, during a contract year? Kinda sounds like Cato and his amazingly effective (for him, at least) preseason that earned him the big contract. Don't get me wrong, I like Kandi, always have. I just question his competitiveness and consistency.
Here's my question, for all you CBA experts. In trade to match salaries, do players like Walt and Willis equate to $0 in trade because their contracts are up? Can we resign them to a specific contract to make a trade work under the CBA and still pull off the trade before Draft night? If the second question is answered yes, it makes things a lot easier to pull of a trade I'd guess. But I have a feeling that's not quite legit. Plz let me know when you get a chance. Thx
