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Out of the Bat Cave for Five ......

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by oeilpere, May 21, 2002.

  1. chievous minniefield

    chievous minniefield Contributing Member

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    I would give any amount of testicles to see Kevin Garnett and Steve Francis playing on the same team. . .

    so of course I'd give up cuttino mobley. I'd also give up eddie griffin.

    Kevin Garnett is what we all hope griffin grows up to be, anyway.

    I say we offer griffin, rice, salary filler, and however many 1st-round picks it takes to make Kevin Garnett a Rocket.

    hell, if we could make a deal for him and keep mobley or griffin, it would be a steal no matter what else we gave up.

    the 'wolves have a problem. sure, Garnett is the man, but his contract has them seriously F'd. not to mention the F'ing joe smith left them with.

    I believe in my heart that, if they have a chance to right their cap situation and pick up 1st-rounders to replace the ones they cheated away. . . well, what would you do?

    everybody wants to focus on how great Ming might be. think for a second about what a tremendous chump he might be. . .

    Kevin Garnett is worth 5 yao mings. you're talking about a proven versus a big maybe.

    out of all the names that are being bandied about. . . odom, rashard, kandi, kwame, ming, etc. . . there is only one that sends chills down my spine: Kevin Garnett.

    I wish. . .
     
  2. Rockets R' Us

    Rockets R' Us Contributing Member

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    I say the only thing we even consider should be an offer for Garnett. Spree, Jamison, Rashard, Odom are all stars but not SUPERstars. Ming could be a SUPERstar or a bust. Ming or Garnett. No ifs,ands, or buts.
     
  3. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    That trade sounds intriguing, but I'm not sure Jamison is a three, and I'm even less sure that he's the three the Rockets need. He doesn't give us playmaking abilities (Odom) or a serious outside threat (Lewis). And I know stats don't mean too much but his defensive stats (0.9 spg and 0.5 bpg) are so unspectacular I question whether he's really that great of a defensive player. And then what we do with the 3rd pick now that we already have a three? The only option would be to draft a power forward and try to make him play center.
     
    #43 DCkid, May 22, 2002
    Last edited: May 21, 2002
  4. Mango

    Mango Contributing Member

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    You note that his contract is an encumbrance on a team, yet you would like for the Rockets to assume that burden.

    What am I not understanding?



    Mango
     
  5. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    A-Train might think he is, but I'm the most horny BBS member here. I'm waiting for Doc Rocket to tell us we've never "seen" Yao Ming play, and oeilpere to tell us "we all need our heads examined."

    Praise be the lord, and sodomy is illegal!!!
     
    #45 heypartner, May 22, 2002
    Last edited: May 21, 2002
  6. Greg M

    Greg M Member

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    Pops--I always look forward to your posts. It's a huge reason why I've been lurking for years. I appreciate the time you spend gathering the info and passing it onto us. With that said, is this April fools day? This is by far the most depressing take I've ever heard on this BBS. Odom is not the saviour. He is simply not that special of a player. He didn't warrant a top pick when he came out and he hasn't in the least that's he's worthy of it now. And Rashard?? A number one for a spot up shooter? That's like trading Griffin for Bullard! If this is really what's coming out of Rudy's mouth than Lord it's time for him to get to rehab! He's definately showing the first stages of one serious problem, denial and delusion. I can live with trading the pick but man give me talent. Give me a franchise player. Arrgh....I'm gonna go cry :(
     
  7. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    What surprises me the most is that The Rocket Guy didn't lie through his teeth for a change. When he mentioned the Pups calling the Rox, I knew he had to be BSing. And yet Pops confirms otherwise.

    I know we're all in love with the idea of Yao Ming, but if the negotiations will be too much of a pain in the ass...if we're gonna draft a center who might not even play for us 20 games or more during the year (God forbid we should go deep into the playoffs, at about the same time China recalls the big boy for its national team)....and if Wang Zhi Zhi's playing in the NBA took two years of negotiations, and he was a 2nd round pick, certainly not #1 overall.....

    I see where Pops is coming from. I don't necessarily agree with his assessment of Yao's skills, but maybe he's speaking more out of frustration over what it'll take to get the guy (thus, to hell with him) than over how the dude plays.

    If we're trying to get to the playoffs NOW, then no, Yao isn't gonna do it. Will we even have him to see if I'm wrong? Quite possibly yes. And quite possibly no.

    I go back and forth over drafting the guy, but I tell you what: if someone calls you, saying, "You can have KG and keep Francis," then you absolutely must listen. Draft Jay-Dub and go from there.

    I just want to be realistic on this. Oeilpere is obviously on the inside...Deep Throat...so I, for one, want to know what he knows.
     
  8. tacoma park legend

    tacoma park legend Contributing Member

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    I don't understand the thinking of the Rockets' front office. Realistically, and to avoid the "loopholes" that a trade for a Kevin Garnett (pipedream) would entail, you target stud players who are still on their rookie scale contracts.

    That's a small list- Brand, Marion, Odom. The latter two likely aren't moving, and Odom is a player the Clippers are inevitably going to trade anyways.....you'd just be giving in to to some romanticized version of what he really is by handing them the #1, which is a great move by the way......let's hand a team we're in direct competition with the safest pick in the draft (Williams) who just happens to fill their greatest need- point guard.

    Oh, and taking on a player in the last year of his contract as the primary component in a blockbuster isn't a risk, right? :rolleyes:

    Guidelines for trading the pick

    1. You do not take on a fringe all star with a max, or soon to be max, contract. In other words, no Jamison, no Odom. Whatever slightly better version of Richard Jefferson we'd pick up with the additional pick would NOT be enough compensation. The talent differential between a small forward taken in the lottery and the ones that will be available at 15 isn't large enough to justify such a drastic move.

    2. Do not trade the pick if one of the major priorities is to dump bad contracts. This kind of ties in with the first point, since the Rockets' brass would likely be looking to dump a Cato and/or Rice by dealing for an overpaid, fringe star like Jamison.

    3. Don't be conservative. You don't pass on Ming for some run of the mill-small forward+ additional compensation. Any deal short of a blockbuster would not yield this team's desired results.

    So....really....what I'm getting at is this- no realistic trades exist out there that justify passing up the chance at Ming.

    I hope they don't mess with a good thing, or they'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.......
     
  9. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    i think because minn is stuck at mediocre right now and with no chance of draft help, they need FA help and garnett's contract has them stuck (i think). we however would not be looking for more help through FA's if we got garnett and we will already be over the cap with francis' extension so it doesn't hurt us near as much. that's how i see it. and somehow odom/kandi for the #1 plus whatever just seems depressing. i mean it upgrades those our two major weaknesses but how good is kandi anyway and who wants good players when you could have great. come on china, be nice and let us have ming. francis, mobley, griff, ming, oh man.
     
  10. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    Now Clutch posts in another new thread that the chances of drafting Ming are 85%, although there are some possibilities/stipulations that he can't mention....YET.

    Man, I'm confused. But having the #1 pick, regardless, is good. As long as we don't mess this up.
     
  11. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    I would be disappointed if we didn't get a quality big man in exchange for Ming.Otherwise take the chance and keep him.
    I don't know if this has been mentioned before,but does anyone think that Chicago might agree do this trade?

    Ming and Griffin for Chandler or Curry.
    With the second pick the Rockets trade KT +15 and move up to get Stoudamire.
    Stoudamire replaces Griffin,and Curry or Chandler move to the 5.
    After reading what Oeilpere wrote it sounds that the Rockets are not at all interested in Ming.
    I know a number of teams probably look at him in a similar fashion,but someone might take a chance with him and if he goes to a big market,I would rather see him with Chicago than in let's say New York.
     
  12. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    I'm thinking that McHale probably asked for Cat or Griffin (or maybe both) + Taylor/Rice + KT + #1 pick + 2 or 3 future 1st rounders. That is an arm and a leg, and definitely too much.

    However, some of y'all have proposed something to the likes of KG for #1 pick + KT + Rice + #15.

    Don't mean to be rude, but you should punch yourself in the face for typing that. If that ridiculus trade happens, I will run through the streets of Downtown butt naked.
     
  13. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    OP Says:

    "Ming’s pick will be sold unless we can’t get anything decent in return. The better equation may be to go after “Just Call Me Jay” and trade his rights in a complicated but rewarding deal involving two spots (the three and the five) and another pick. "

    This means Yao goes to Golden State, we get McDyess + at least one pick, and Denver gets...?

    I like McDyess, but I'm slowly becoming convinced that if we can't get KG at a reasonable price, we should suck it up and stick with Ming.
     
  14. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    let me get this straight, trade ming AND griffin for curry OR chandler? not only would chicago accept that, but i'm guessing we could gather most of the bbs to personally smack cd in the face for taking it. imo griffin by himself is worth more than either curry or chandler.
     
  15. TraJ

    TraJ Member

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    KG's salary is an encumbrance to the T-wolves because they need more than he alone can provide, and no hope of being able to get it. The Rockets would be placing KG next to someone the caliber of Steve Francis. They already have that other piece to the puzzle. That's not an encumbrance; it's the two superstar foundation that seems to be necessary to go all the way in today's NBA.
     
  16. Sherlock

    Sherlock Contributing Member

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    Pops, these are the most depressing posts you have ever posted ... I hope you aren't right about all this ... sounds very confused down there...

    ... not only about Ming, but if that doesn't work out, also how little we can get for what we've got if we trade. According to the options I'm hearing from you, there sure won't be any championship team built from all this... it seems very short term thinking just to get into the playoffs next year, not rebuilding for a championship. Odom isn't the final piece for a championship team, in my opinion...

    Why don't you walk through a scenario from beginning to end of the summer, to explain how you see it going, and what players we could add, just so its a bit more clear...
     
  17. Greg M

    Greg M Member

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    Sherlock--Even with Ming putting up mediocre numbers his first season this team still should make the playoffs. With Odom or Rashard and loose change we might be able to be a 5th seed at best instead of the 8th? That's not worth it. As you said it is <b>VERY</b> short term thinking. For what? A quick fix? Pride? Revenue? Nah, can't be revenue. Ming will add a ton of cash to Alexander's pocket just being on the team. I don't get it.
     
  18. Asian Sensation

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    I Have a feeling Houston will acquire KG one way or another if Rudy is salivating over him that much. It might involve Mobley or Griffin and #1+fill ins but if management REALLY wants Garnett I bet it will be done. Who wouldve known we couldve acquired Drexler,Barkley,Pippen and Griffin.
     
  19. Mango

    Mango Contributing Member

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    There is already a future obligation to the Griz to be honored and including a future 1st in a KG package would mean that the Rockets would be impaired as the TWolves currently are in continuing to draft young and low salary talent to the roster. I am unconvinced that KG, Cat, Francis + journeymen would take the Rockets past other Western Conference teams.


    Mango
     
    #59 Mango, May 22, 2002
    Last edited: May 22, 2002
  20. Possum

    Possum Member

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    TPL EXCELENT POST!

    This is the best post I have read since all this draft talk started. You should fax it straight to the Rockets front office.
     

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