Actually, <i>NIKEstrad</i>, I had posted this trade solution, accepted by RealGM, on the TroyBaros thread earlier this morning, based on the possibility that LAC/CHI/HOU are considering a three way trade. LAC gets #2 for Williams, Fizer CHI gets #1 for Ming, #8, #15, Thomas, Norris, Brown HOU gets #12, Curry, Odom In this deal, we'd move up a few spots, increasing our chance to pick up either Stoudamire or Hilario...
Chicago trades: C Eddy Curry PG Jamal Crawford Future First Chicago receives: PG Moochie Norris C Jason Collier 1st pick Houston trades: PG Moochie Norris C Jason Collier PF Kenny Thomas 1st pick 15th pick Houston receives: C Eddy Curry SF Lamar Odom Future first L.A. Clippers trades: SF Lamar Odom L.A. Clippers receives: PG Jamal Crawford PF Kenny Thomas 15th pick Something like that Nike. Clippers could even entice the Bulls with the #s 8, 12 and 15 for the 2nd, although I doubt they'd listen. Sherlock--I don't think the Bulls would stockpile picks.
Sherlock - Congratulations. This is the first proposal involving the Rockets getting KG that I have seen which makes any sense in the real world. I do have some slight issues. 1) RealGM has Piatkowski with 1 more year under contract. I have seen another source stating he is a FA this summer. Let's ignore that for now. 2) My second problem is that you may have made our competitors alot stronger as well: MINN 5) Rasho / Marcus - 12 / Jackson / Woods 4) Joe Smith / MoT / MCE 3) Odom / Rice / Wally World / Caron Butler - 8 2) Wally World / Caron Butler - 8 1) Andre Miller (for Fizer) / Billups / Peeler Since Odom plays some 4 you could have: 5) Rasho (Marcus) 4) Odom 3) Butler 2) Wally Z 1) Miller LAC 5) Curry / Kandi / Rooks 4) Brand / (Fowlkes / MCE) 3) Miles / Q 2) Mobely / Q / Maggette 1) Dooling / (McInnis re-signed)
1) Rooks+H. Jamison=Pike 2) Thats the risk you take when you make a trade like this. Turns the Rockets into a title contender, turns 1 team into a playoff team, turns the other's cap situation around.
Are you sure the Rockets are better than the Clipps? 5) Cato / Collier vs. Curry / Kandi 4) KT / EG vs. Brand 3) KG vs Miles 2) OT vs Mobely / Q 1) SF / Mooch vs. Dooling / McInnis I give the Clipps the edge at 5, 4 & 2.
Sherlock...very nice proposal, yours always seem to be some of the better ones around here. But, although it makes sense for the other teams to do it, I can't imagine Jerry Krause pulling off something like that. Curry, Fizer, and a low lotto pick for the #1, Thomas, and they get to keep the #2. He'd come off looking like a genius, something I don't think he can do. NYKrule...I don't think the Clippers would do that. They trade Odom for the 15, Kenny Thomas who they really don't need, and add another young PG that they really don't need. They already have Mcinnis and Dooling, who has lots of potential.
2 other variations on that 3-way trade between LAC/CHI/HOU would be (RealGM accepted): LAC gets Curry, Fizer CHI gets #1 for Ming, #8, #12, Mobely, Thomas HOU gets #2 for Williams, Odom or LAC gets Curry, Norris CHI gets #1 for Ming, #2 for Williams, Taylor, Thomas HOU gets #8/12, Odom, Maggette, Crawford, Fizer On the first one, we get an even better backcourt, future superstar at the SF. Still have lack of depth at center, although we add players like Hilario and Stoudamire in the draft ... On the second one, we get immediate help in Odom, keep core of team intact, unload Taylor and his long term contract, gain a lot of quality depth, and now we have lots desireable trading chits to pull in a good center.
Would it surprise you to know that the 39-43 Clipps split the season series with the 50-32 TWolves? I wouldn't say KG exactly dominates the Clipps. They gain Curry and Mobely and lose Odom who only started 25 games. That's a strong Clipps team.
On the first one the Clippers get a back-up C and a back-up PF for Odom, and 2 lottery picks. The second one is worse. The Clippers get a back-up C and a back-up PG for Odom, Maggette, and two lottery picks. Now, I know I'm no GM (I just play one of boards) but both of those trades make absolute zero sense from the Clippers end. If they are going to trade Odom and their lottery picks they will do so to fill their weakest position (PG), not for back-ups. XL
my thoughts exactly, Sherlock you usually have fair proposals, but I think you must not like the Clips too much?
perhaps you guys are right... Fizer was #4, and Curry was #4, but everyone had him projected as #1 up until the day of the draft... Odom was #4. I figured #8/12 was probably worth a #4. Both will be future starters, and Curry will probably be a superstar center in the league, a player who can grow to become one you can build your team around, at a time when there are hardly any centers... LAC gets rid of one guy who has drug problems, who wants a max contract next year from a team who is cheap, who they don't need, since they have Miles and Maggette at SF, and get last year's prize of the draft at rookie scale for another few years. Fizer gives depth behind Brand, or becomes trade fodder to get a #2. I agree, they might prefer Wagner or Mobely to be their future #2. But how often do you get a chance at the only rookie who "COULD" get as good as Shaq?
thanks for the facts, aelliott. they happen to undermine both of my two main hopes for landing garnett, but thanks for them just the same. I am now officially praying for a miracle.
Well if you’re one of the fans here who is watching the dilemma play itself out and thought … “it couldn’t get worse” … well it just did … it is getting more confusing everyday ... Negotiations with that Li Yao Ming character who is passing himself off as “one of the (team) assistants/negotiators, another one who is a professor “cousin” from Chicago, another team of smiling, glad-hand(l)ers from The Sharks, an entire retinue from China Sports (Authority?), two american sports “agents” who are “representing Yao Ming in America” have been keeping things hectic and busy at Greenway and “elsewhere”. Amidst all this fracas CD has had to legitimately talk to the Knicks, the Clippers, the Raptors ( … what the Raptors? … ), the Bulls and now the Magic …. and yet somehow squeeze enough time in to make his own calls(pleads? LOL) to Minnesota. Ah … now a wrinkle …. Golden State They want a move that will get them the first with a swap with their third. Mmmmmmmmm, me thinks that Jackson slap in the face (“just business CD” – my quotes) last year may come back to haunt them. It is not that they aren’t trusted, not like the Chicago answer to pooor decisions(Krause) who has burned so many trade deals in the past in Bull-land, but CD is taking it as kinda … well like … ‘something to look at’ (my quotes). Golden State wants Jay Will. Real Bad. They also want to gauge public support of a Yao Ming acquisition. Big Asian community out there. Jamison is apparently off the table and not an issue according to Greenway. That leaves a lot of half journeymen available in the difference - (“half journeymen” because Fortson, Dampier, et al although healthy, now have been in the league a while but spent most of it traveling to doctor’s offices). But a move from first to third with a fott in the door to land some other possibilities (drafts, players etc …) is intriguing enough for CD to consider. They could use KT as the three and move Jamison back to his preferred four spot. Just a thought. The Clippers They will deal Odom (to be settled later) if Houston wants him, but want a swap (for the first) and player ( to be settled later). I couldn’t get the name but it’s a forward. IMHO I don’t think RT will even consider to unload Griffin in this type of deal, but I think (again this is IMHO) it may be KT, but cannot (Greenway won’t) confirm … “no way, not right now”. A separate issue was Kandi, but the movement/talks/”meat and potatoes (substance)” on that is brief at this stage. New York With a hardy but discrete helping of nodded approval from Stern … New York has set it’s crusade to garner Yao Ming in the upcoming draft. A lot of support, money and favorable logistics from the Asian community in New York. (Hint – hint: Your “gravy” money in metro sports is made from corporate sponsorship and corporate sales. There are a lot of Asian businesses waiting in the wings on this). Why they don’t bone up and call it like it is … that Jay Will would be a better move for them ... teamwise & successwise …. but, Ming is a marketers dream in a city like NY. Bottom line, they are like salivating dogs waiting for the bell to ring. They are all over CD. Every blessed day since last week … “well, let us know, and don’t make any deals before you talk to us tomorrow” (my paraphrased quotes). Other Stuff The Lakers If you can believe it the Lakers have been talking to Utah about our old friend and enemy Karla Malone. These things are merely basic preliminary discussions at this stage of the game. I even hesitate to call them discussions. But a solid California source says that Jazz management approached him (Malone) about the LA trade-scouting talks and he (Malone) stated he would not balk at such a move. Jazz want the moon for Karla and I would expect the talks get very lively between La Jazz and La Lakers before some conclusion … well after the playoff season is over. Parting Shots 1. C. Butler is getting closer and closer to the SF the Rockets will seek, if they trade down to three or four or five that is …IMHO he won’t be there past six. But he is getting good reports. Maybe I should say excellent reports from the Rocket’s scouting team. 2. Tski (Nicholas Tskitishvili) was scouted by RT himself. Actually RT and family go to Europe almost every year and have a full itinerary with business and pleasure (I know you die hards already know this). This year one of his stops was to talk to Tski and several EuroLeague scouts. Tski could be compared to a lot of guys but the most telling thing was his presence on the floor ( a scant but productive/busy15 or so minutes per game) and his attitude (“very centered intelligent guy” (RT) about the game. He’s a project to be sure, but has an excellent outlook. RT loved him. The movement of European players, especially young “almost 7 footers” (my quotes) into the NBA hasn’t been lost on RT or anyone else for that matter. If he goes … Chris M. quotes him as saying last March he will play here “only if (he) gets a top ten spot” … you can bet he will get selected first round at any rate … and RT may take him at 15 (if he still has the spot open). What do I think will happen … It is beginning to shape up to me like the Rockets will do one of the following things: (a) Draft Ming and cross their fingers. I don’t think … no I know ... they are NOT sold on him yet. (b) Trade the pick to move down only a few spots and select the best SF available – Butler, maybe Dunleavy, but Butler is looking awfully good on the weighted scouting reports. My feeling is that if Butler is not there, and if a couple other "notables" are not there (Jefferiesis one) ... they will draft day trade (select then trade the rights). See next. (c) Trade the pick and more, and move farther down to get a utility 6-10ish forward – Gooden, Woods, Marcus, Tski … while picking up more credits and picks (d) Blockbuster a draft pick-player trade that will net them the immediate future – that’s Garnett ( a long shot), or Rashard (not as long but difficult and cannot not be done immediately) or a Chicago deal (Chandler or Curry plus a couple of picks can be had from the Bulls IMHO) or a Odom/Kandi deal ( another long delay but a lot closer in possibility IMHO than some are willing to admit). (e) Or, they pick at number one - the guy who they think will be the easiest to trade in the summer – to me that’s Jay Will …. A sweet deal lure for any number of teams. Cheers.
thank you opie. Any and all "insider" info is greatly appreciated, even if it conflicts with other thoughts. My thoughts- what the Raptors? Unless Vince Carter has decided he'll be tough and play SF, there's no one on that roster that's anywhere near a #1 pick. Alvin Williams is a half decent backup combo guard, maybe. the Magic would probably start with Mike Miller, which isn't a bad place to start. Don't they have something insane like 7 future #1s owed to them? I don't see anything with GS happening. I'll stay away from the Foyles/Dampiers/etc. plus the whole Jackson thing. I'm not sure I'd even want Jamison-he's a PF, already with a MAX deal and not worth it, when we have Griffin for the future, and MoTay/KT for the present. For the Clips-it's illegal to talk deals about Kandi. That, and we'd have to talk contract terms, and get him to want to come here means there talks will be centered around Odom, 8, 12-which are pieces that could be put together to get the #1, IMO. Same thing Rashard talks are pointless-who would want Rashard for the #1 overall anyway? The Knicks? Eew. They'd have to offer me #1 picks for the next 100 years...well, at least 3 years. I don't want a single player on that roster. Honestly. I like the Bulls possibilities. I don't even want Chandler-I honestly think EG will be better, but Curry is worth talking about. If we're going to trade Ming, I want to get a potential stud center, or at least a good one (not Foyle or Dampier)-and Curry qualifies. Curry is enough to get talks started, what would they put on top of him? We don't really need anyone else off their roster-could we make it a 3 way, where someone else needs someone off their roster (Fizer?)/our roster (KT/MN?) and it lands us a nice SF as well? BTW-You think Tsika will be around anywhere near 15? The guy is getting thrown around as "Nowitzki+quickness/athleticism" "Kevin Garnett" and "Gasol+outside shooting"- all by his coach who wants him to stay!. I think he'll climb into the top 5. This year is awesome for SFs....I see 6 probably going top 15 (Dunleavy, Tsika, Butler, Woods, Jeffries, Nachbar)
Thanks for the update OP. It's sounding more & more like the Chinese government is going to be too much of a hassle to deal with, no matter what kind of upside Ming has. I read or heard somewhere, that Mark Cuban has been disgusted with the hoops he's had to jump through for ZhiZhi. Both the Chicago & Clipper's deals sound sweet to me. In the Chicago deal, you mentioned a couple of picks could come our way as well. Would those be #1 picks & would one of them be the #2 pick this year?
oeilpere, Long time no chat. I can confirm much of what you are hearing. The organization is not enamoured with GS after last year. The old what goes around comes around deal! LOL NY is a complete no go to the point of laughter. Man, are they begging at this point or what???? Chicago, but not exactly what you have posted....less of a trade than more an agreement for rights. Clips..... That sounds more like the prelim talks than what is current. If they are back to that stage, the Clips can go jump in a lake! Odom for the #1 and Griff....What are they high or something! I think that would be more than a little backwards for a #1 pick trade. The last I knew of Odom was not involved, but a bigger prize was on the table. KT was gone in this iteration. This one and Chicago are the best to date and this is just week one! Wait until 14 days from now when the prizes become much larger as we move into the bonus round! LMAO! Funny, but I am not really worried about the initial trades - if they go through. My concern is the subsequent trade that MUST occur because of an overload at one position. It would not be hidious to go into the season with this situation, but it may slow team development. Typically, it is not great to reload during the middle of a season....Umm....Oh wait! Didn't we win a championship that way???
From what I gather, the Bulls very badly want JWill, as do other teams like the Clippers, Warriors, etc. (Obviously many team want him, but these have a descent shot.) Could this give the Rockets a lot of leverage for dealing with the Bulls? In other words, they indicate to the Bulls that they are going to trade the #1, and if the Bulls want Williams, they better deal with the Rockets or else he goes to the next highest bidder. Therefore, the Rockets force a swap with the Bulls in which they pick up/ unload other players. The Rockets then have the #2 which they could use to pick Ming anyway or trade it again. Pretty complicated and others may have already mentioned it, but it would be pretty cool if we could pull it off.
