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Out of the Bat Cave for Five ......

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by oeilpere, May 21, 2002.

  1. oeilpere

    oeilpere Member

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    Okay … Ming and his future as a Rocket was pursued and sought big time for 48 hours. A cadre of Rocket’s management (backroom boys) and scouts (D,L,J,etc…) heavily study the situation. Some heavyweights in Asia. Then suddenly they get “the call”.

    Now it is just a skeleton crew and tons of tape to ponder. Back to Houston. “Forty-eight-frigging-hours” are you kidding me?

    Oh, we still have some guys over there … but it is strange. Most of these yahoos from Lotus Land have power and pull … but, don’t know a damned thing about basketball. Not even as rudimentary a knowledge about the CBA as … well … as my cat, Annie.

    It’s like a never-never land of bows (mostly scrapes), and nodding puppets (“huh huh”) … smiles … (nods some more) … it’s like the Vietnam Paris Treaty talks in the sixties. All this pontificating followed by genuflecting but nothing is being accomplished. They were not prepared.

    China I mean.

    Les was ahead of the curve. As always.




    Meanwhile back in the real world …

    CD has some great and complicated offers on the table … “Let’s talk about …”.

    Big problems:

    1. Ming now or maybe later next year? We need something now … we could bust out of this circumstance as big as any other time in history with a great draft, but the offers are staggering. And, Ming will only play in a few venues (well if you call 5 or 6 city’s out of twenty-something). All that spec about Memphis trading us this and that is BS. The real guys are in the metropolis franchises. “If we sell the (first pick) we want a franchise type player” - end of frigging quote CD. Thanks.
    2. RT likes Ming but wants someone of caliber now. Oh he’ll take Ming if nothing comes up that doesn’t hurt RT personally, and his biggest fault in this thing is Rudy’s loyalty to his players. So, back to the table,CD. “Give me some choices.”
    3. Odom can be had … regardless of what is coming out of California media and Clipper haven. But the price is high. RT and CD both like Odom. A natural fit here. They will sell the first to get him.
    4. KG’s name gets bandied about. New wrinkle. Big wrinkle! Dang! Apparently KG has said he would go to Houston if traded. The Puppy Brass know they can do it if they want. Kevin Mc Hale wants an arm and a leg, though. Totally unreasonable. And, what hurts us even worse is that we would have to make some awfully difficult moves because of the CBA to get anything done that would involve KG. Mc Hale actually said he will listen to some offers from CD – which involves basically everything but Francis. No, McHale says doesn’t want Francis. Strange. Quote for Quote(third party) “Francis doesn’t have to be involved in this.” CD says he can’t have Francis anyway. The Puppies really don’t want KG to go, and are luring everyone big time with offers and then switching bait with Wally, et al. You’re reading it ,right? But behind all that smoke is a smoldering KG. He is 50-50 wanting out. He has asked to talk to some people (RT and the Rockets is among them), but he was told … “no … we’ll handle this.”
    5. But like I say … Ming’s stock may have been eclipsed by all this hoopla and busy phones to Houston the first 48 hours after the ball dropped. Ming is being talked up as the next best thing since sliced bread and a 7 foot Nigerian … but like Willie Shakes says “ … thy protests too much …” Personally I think it’s smoke job. I think the more the Rockets tout Ming the closer he is to being dealt.

    The “I Want” Rules –
    1. Unload unwanted contracts – Rice is #1, Cato is far lower on the list and may not even be on the list anymore. They will deal Taylor too, but only as a blockbuster inclusion. KT has some stock.
    2. Pick up youth with experience. The Rockets scouting team is first class and they know who they want.
    3. Pick up a three spot. A star running back (legs,length,experience)who can quarterback (create plays, great off the dribble, a perfect addition to Francis and Mobes) …. A starter. A guy who will open up everyone else the moment he steps on the floor. Rashard and Odom are in that caliber of player. Spree and Camby loosing ground.
    4. Fill the pivot spot. Ming is not the only guy out there. A five to ten pick gets them a fairly decent selection. Even at the teens picks … there are some great first rounder additions. Collier will be out or a red shirt or used to fill a trade price. He is not in the equation. It is Cato and ….(fill in the blanks).
    5. We keep coming back to Kandiman and Odom. Looks far too easy for most of the prognosticators … Odom will demand a price … they are getting smarter in the West. But folks Odom or Rashard would be ideal.
    6. For the diehard Ming Dynasty Fans: Playoffs and beyond this coming season …. Ming will NOT get us significantly closer this year. Maybe not even next year. Anyone who thinks so … should give up their day job and go back to watching WWF and Maury P.


    Conclusion:

    1. Ming’s pick will be sold unless we can’t get anything decent in return. The better equation may be to go after “Just Call Me Jay” and trade his rights in a complicated but rewarding deal involving two spots (the three and the five) and another pick.
    2. They will loosen their minds on untouchables … but Steve/Cuttino/Griff are untouchable still. That is the nucleus.
    3. They will not trade Cato to acquire another similar center. I think he will wear the red/black/blue next season. (Unless they have to include him to get an Odom/Kandi or similar deal done.) At 6+ Million he may be a bargain, even off the bench. Don’t sell his worth yet. (My Gawd am I really saying that????)
    4. Marcus,Gooden,Jeff,etc… get some “look-sees”. Zthey are liked. Yeah,Yeah we have all these other fours. So what?
    5. Plan on a blockbuster deal. No question about it.
    6. Every year I say the free agent signings should run concurrent or open the same days of the draft. It sure would make it easier this year. It’ going to be tricky to get what we want done.

    Big Spec:

    1. The first spot is sold to the highest bidder.
    2. We unload a heavy contract.
    3. We draft one monster (semi starter) and trade for another two starters.
    4. A banner draft … edge of your seat … “someone get me another drink” … Holy **** … speed breathing until the bell rings … kinda draft.

    Back to work.

    Miss you guys.
     
  2. crash5179

    crash5179 Contributing Member

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    Pops,
    great post. I've been wondering when you would chime in. I would love to see something that would get us Odom and someone else like Borchardt maybe.
     
  3. 3oClockRocket

    3oClockRocket Member

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    Thanks oeilpere for the insight...

    If the Rox are going to trade for KG,...i hope we can keep the nucleus of SF, Cat, and Griffin. As you said...they are untouchable. KG would do wonders for us,...team player, high intensity, and a tutor for Griffin. Out of all the trade options, KG seems to be the best way to go...if that's possible. I agree on Cato, that he is a decent filler, as frustrating as he is to watch.

    once again,...great post bro!
     
  4. ZRB

    ZRB Contributing Member

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    So, are we going to the playoffs next year, oeilpere?
     
  5. Rockets R' Us

    Rockets R' Us Contributing Member

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    For your info, its WWE. :D Thanks for the info but shouldn't this be in the Rockets forum?
     
  6. vj23k

    vj23k Contributing Member

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    :eek:

    That would be awesome.

    It might hamper Griff's development though. One thing for sure, he would be made a SF with KG at PF.

    Or we could do something crazy like this...
    C-Garnett
    PF-Griffin
    SF-Undecided
    SG-Mobley
    PG-Francis
     
  7. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Great info, as always, pops. I'm a little curious why you chose this forum instead of the main forum. Could it be that there are too many threads there? Oh well, you know what you are doing, so who am I to question it....hehe.

    I'm a little disappointed by your post in that it looks like Ming would only come here if we couldn't get anything of decent value. I'm also blown away that your source or you feel that Ming would not have an impact for us even in his second season.

    I really don't like Odom for some reason, but Rashard would be okay; however, I sure hope that the Rockets don't give up too much for him.

    I saw something on the Sporting News site about the Rockets and Drew Gooden:

    "As for the draft, the Rockets don't have the luxury of being able to wait for a player to develop. Depending on their draft order, Houston should look for a player like Drew Gooden who can chip in early and progress as the season goes on."

    Full story....



    That is a little distressing that you make the 2nd person to mention Gooden. I just don't see what he would bring to help us unless we move Mo and KT, but still is Gooden that good to start at the 4? Or would that be Eddie??

    Please don't tell me that they want to select Dunleavy! Where does Caron Butler fit into their thinking, pops?

    Thanks as always for your great posts....they're greatly appreciated by me and many others here.
     
  8. LongTimeFan

    LongTimeFan Contributing Member

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    Manny, one thing that sticks out about that is "depending on their draft order"

    I think they said Gooden assuming we'd have the #5..
     
  9. gr8-1

    gr8-1 Contributing Member

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    Thanks. This is pretty stunning. So, I take it there is a less than 50% chance Ming plays for the Rockets?

    Also, I hope we get more than Lewis or Odom for the #1. We could do better.
     
    #9 gr8-1, May 21, 2002
    Last edited: May 21, 2002
  10. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    Popeye, I am not doubting whatever insider information you might have, but even those insiders cannot tell you for sure that Ming cannot help in his first two years. This seems to be your personal opinion. You are probably right, but you are stating it as if it was a fact. It is not.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    And another thing. Clutch posted - from an insider source - that Cato is not even trying and that he does not care AT ALL. So why would the Rockets then still see him as a bargain and want to keep him? Seems like two conflicting pieces of information to me.
     
  12. oeilpere

    oeilpere Member

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    Couple of things ...

    1. The problem with acquiring a lot of the guys that are being mentioned is the ability to get the deal with the ammunition the Rockets have. Case in point, they have the first pick and it is highly sought. However, of the guys they want ... one of the lures is a player who is being controlled by a bureaucracy that wants him to go to a select city (presumably it is only four or five cities , but I think it is more than that ... at least eight or nine). This at the very least limits who the Rockets can get in return for dangled bait. Also, some of the guys they are eying are FAs and therefore out of the running until AFTER the draft. They can do it, but it gets tricky. Another problem is one of the guys (Jay) is sought by some teams that really have limited scraps we can use. Okay Kwame Brown maybe ... but there isn't a lot of room out there. And after Kwame(I'm not endorsing him yet) what else do they give us.

    2. A lot of the trade offers would require a third party. Tricky at the best of times ... even trickier on a draft rights prospect. You can only move and trade so much.

    3. I like Odom more than Manny, but prefer Rashard given the choice between the two (as does MR).

    4. KG is such a trigger name that although he is mentioned ... well ... it is nice to think about and RT is salivating at it ... but it is such a long,long shot folks.

    5. If Ming had even half the flak around him removed from his contract agreement (with all seven or eight sign offs cut to three or four) he would be far more attractive and frankly may be closer to being a Rocket. Les is not very happy about the hoops he would have to jump through if we took Ming.

    6. Trading the pick is looking awfully good right now, but it is early.

    7. Gooden is a versatile forward. I would like to see him with Griffin,Francis and Cat for a couple of shifts. Could be fun. I have been talking up Marcus since December though. Marcus could go in one of our slots (one of our "acquired" traded into slots that is). I like Tski too. Dunleavy is a kinda, slower Langhai on the run, but a good arsenal, consistent, court smart like Brice Drew but far more upside and a steadier finisher than either of these two Rockets. CD likes him and personally I think he will go early ... but he is not the player that RT is keying on right now.

    8. Look if we trade off the first pick for a young athletic starter at the three, the Rockets roster will be cut drastically to fill the pivot spot. And visa versa. It would be nice to get a powerhouse center but there are not any available in the draft(IMHO), and few on the market. The number of small forwards and smallish (college joe) 4-5s (NBA 3-4s) in the top 20 spots is staggering. I think that will be the focus. Use the pick to trade it all for a instant starter with NBA experience and use the other lower pick to get a good depth boy at the leftover (3 or 5) position. Then cut some roster slots and start practicing.

    9. Anyone who thinks that Ming ... who is wrapped in a (NBA "scrawny" a la Bradley) 7 + foot frame ... with very limited contact basketball, and EIGHY PLUS frigging games is going to turn around this franchise needs their head examined. Maybe not even by year two. End of my OPINION.
     
    #12 oeilpere, May 21, 2002
    Last edited: May 21, 2002
  13. NYKFan37

    NYKFan37 Member

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    You work for the Rockets organization? Sorry, new to this board...

    Anyways, was anything said about the Knicks? Have they made any proposals? I read a few posts before and see ya guys hate us :( But anyways just want to know since you've got inside info...

    Also if there have been, are they even resonable? Or one of Layden's Idiotic Proposals?

    BTW, has China said anything to the Rox? That's the only reason I'd think you guys would trade your pick
     
  14. ROCKETBOOSTER

    ROCKETBOOSTER Member

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    No disrespect intended, but the year we traded for Steve Francis, Oeilepre said Steve Francis would be Matt Maloneys back up to start the season :D. So unless you think hes a psychic, don't read too much into his talent evaluations of Ming and how effective or ineffective he'll be in the future. It's impossible to be so sure of such a thing.


    thanks for the trade rumblings, Oeilepre.
     
  15. red

    red Contributing Member

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    more oeilpere...more...i want more..tell me more...yes all of it...yes...tell me yes...
     
  16. The Real Shady

    The Real Shady Contributing Member

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    :eek: WOW! Very informative Oeilipere. If we were able to get KG I will do a back flip!:p It would be hard to imagine that we could get him without giving up Griffen though.
     
  17. lived

    lived Member

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    Thanks for the great inside scoop.
    I've got to agree that there's too much red tape to go through for Ming to come to Houston.
    Also, it's almost impossible for him to make any sort of impact on our performace next year if he's not going to be in summer training with the team. Therefore, there's no way he will have much impact next season, unless we go on one of those customary second half seasonal runs.
    It'll be best to hold on to the pick and work out something for a steller player, and draft some bulk with the lower picks.

    Just had a nice thought: what if no team figures that all the hassle of getting Ming is worthit? It'll be great to see the reactions of the chinese. And don't get me wrong, cos I'm chinese, but I feel there's too much hoo-haa surrounding Ming right now. The chinese government just thinks too highly of him just cos he dominated the local league.
     
  18. CriscoKidd

    CriscoKidd Member

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    Interesting read Oily.

    some things I noted:

    1. on KG - No way we can land him. A three way seems difficult. His salary makes it nigh impossible, and if we have to toss in Mobes or Griff + the number one with all the contracts we'd have to throw in it just isn't worth it unless we get back more than KG(what else do they have? Wally? bleh). And it's not surprising that they wouldn't want Francis in the deal as they would pick JWill, not Ming.

    2. I like Odom as well and really think he would fit in well here. Lewis not so. No way would I give up the number one for Lewis and whatever little crap they have to offer. Now if they would give us Lewis for say KT + the 15 ... that's a different story. Odom + the 8 for the 1 would definitely be tempting should Ming not be the real deal.

    3. I like Gooden, but we would need something significant in return for moving down to pick him. He is not 1st pick worthy.

    4. Anyway you could expand on the exact flak around Ming's contract? What hoops would the rocks have to jump through?

    5. I don't think anyone thinks he'll lead us to the playoffs either of his first 2 years. The thing is this kid could lead us to championships after a while. I don't know if anyone else in the draft has that capability. If the rocks make the playoff it will be because of the health of the players we already have, not Ming. I disagree with you here, I think Ming could be a franchise center. If the Rocks pass on him, it could very easily bite them in the ass.

    6. who are the real teams in talk for the Rocks pick? The only teams I see really interested and with something to offer are GS, Washington, and LAC. That's it. Who else could there be? and what players?
     
  19. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
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    Three things I really don't like in this report.

    1) Short-term thinking. Our core players are 19, 24, and (if you count Mobley) 26. We can survive a year or so of Yao's development in exchange for having a unique NBA force thereafter. I have NO respect for owners, GMs, and coaches who are too preoccupied with protecting their jobs or pocketbooks in the short term to do what's best for their teams in the long term.

    2) Dumping contracts. The Cato contract was boneheaded. The Rice deal was foolish. The Taylor contract has turned into an unfortunate mistake. So what? EAT THEM. We screwed up; we can live with them. Rice's deal will be over soon; Mo will heal and play at least OK; Cato is already serviceable. Do NOT compound these mistakes by spending our precious #1 pick to get rid of them. I will stick my head in the toilet and flush it if Les, CD, and Rudy sell this gift to pay off their old, stupid, manageable debts.

    3) Settling for mediocrity. The hardest thing to acquire in the NBA is franchise players. Reliable 4's can be had in this draft, the next one, and the one after that, or by trade or free agency. When is the next time we're going to have the #1 pick? Yet we're going to throw it away for stuff we could get through other transactions? This is like owning a big plot of prime real estate in a major city and trading it for four small, scattered plots that add up to the same area. Small plots are easy to come by; big ones are damn near impossible.

    You know what's going to happen if we trade this #1 pick for a couple of decent forwards or one decent forward and unloading a bad contract or two? We're going to spend the next two or three years trying to figure out how we can package some of the decent but unremarkable talent on our roster to get a potentially great player like the one we walked away from in the 2002 draft.
     
  20. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    oeilpere, is there any word of drafting Loren Woods with the top pick...
     

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