Exactly. Now, I might argue, like many did at the time, that we could've gone for a point guard, if simply for the need. And maybe the back issue was an unknown. Dekker did seem more of a Rudy T. / Carroll D. type of draft pick: lanky white 3's, hopefully with grit, much like Rudy T. the player (Dan "Damn Lanky" Langhi, Bostjan Nachbar, Mirsad "Evil Doogie Howser" Turkcan, Steve Novak).
Thanks. I think we get in trouble when we start labeling Jones as a "missing piece" or "the answer" or whatever, and just stop thinking about him from another teams perspective as a nice role player that fills a need. You go down the list of teams (especially good ones) that are relying on very unlikely characters for huge minutes in their big man rotation and its pretty obvious that they could view Jones as someone who can be plugged in that role and really be a nice add to them. Its also unseen as to how Jones would look in a totally different system playing different types of stars/core players. Also have you ever seen a team NOT think they are going to get the best version of the player they are trading for? ... well maybe not the Rockets with Lawson, but still. As for what picks/assets he is valued at, I think the above list shows that its completely subjective BASED ON THE BUYER. I think they are buyers out there, but they will each have completely different assets to trade. Its so incredibly subjective, that its really not a surprise at all that its Hollic/Jopat's favorite argument... no matter what you say he's always going to be right and have a rebuddle.
?? I have gone through all the teams and I do know which teams need a pf and the most likely with one late first to spare is toronto.( they have four firsts one lottery two late firsts and their 2017 first which maybe its late first too depending on if they can keep derozan). Other candidates are washington and indiana and charlotte.
Right now there arent many trades going on because almost everyone is a buyer. There are too few sellers hecause of howany teams are still in playoff hunt.
One of the few positives about this team going into a fire sale. The Rockets have more than a few players that can really help teams trying to make a playoff run.
Or at least some players that we can fool teams into thinking that they will help them. Guys like Brewer and Jones are total garbage, but it just takes one sucker to get a deal done.
1. GSW - does not have a second rounder available to trade until 2019. Cannot trade a first rounder until 2018. They have Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut, Festus Ezeli, Marresse Speights, and Jason Thompson as their big men and they have a rookie 4 in Kevon Looney. In addition, they have a full roster so they'd have to drop a player or attempt to trade them back to us. They have Ian Clark and James McAdoo on non-guaranteed deals but both players have showed promise in their system. Not to mention Barbosa and Brandon Rush. Jason Thompson is better than Terrence but let's assume they want to cut salary and go with Terrence for the remainder of the season. Now you've got a complicated 3-way deal working, you've got to find a team that will take Thompson and send both teams another asset. Gets convoluted real quick. Not to mention GS likes to play small with Iggy at the 4 when they don't have their big man on the floor and they've got Green at the 5. Not to mention GS is way into the luxury tax at $95 million. Adding Terrence adds his salary plus additional luxury tax of between $7-8 million. In addition Terrence is then restricted and they have to let him walk or re-sign him at market rates whenever they're looking at having to pay Ezeli somewhere between $60-$80 million this summer. It makes LESS THAN ZERO SENSE to believe GS needs or "could use" a player like Terrence to ride the bench and be inactive most of the time and that they'd give up their 2018 first or 2019 second (protected from 46-60) for Terrence, pay around an extra $10 million for him for half a season, and then let him walk or match a contract that will push them into the luxury tax next season after they hammer out deals for Ezeli and Barnes. 2. CLE - Same story as GSW. They don't have a decent second rounder that could possibly be a high second until 2019. And they're only first they can move is their 2018 first. They're even further in the luxury tax than GSW. And they've got TT, Love, Mozgov, and Varajao as their bigs. All those guys are better than Terrence. And Lebron plays the 4 for them a lot when they go small. Not to mention they'd have to drop a player...probably Jared Cunningham. c'mon guys. There's no way CLE gives up a first or high second for Terrence. 3. DAL - they don't own a 2016 first rounder. Only first they could trade would be 2018 first. Doesn't own a high second unless they decide to tank in 2017. Their big man rotation is relatively weak. But they've got the 5 locked down with Zaza and Dwight Powell. Terrence isn't getting minutes there. And Dirk is their 4. When Dirk is off the floor I suppose Terrence could wrestle around with Charlie V, Jeremy Evans, and the smalls for minutes. You might be able to make an argument here but Dallas not having a trade-able first until 2018 or a high second without tanking makes me believe very strongly that they aren't serving up their 2018 first for Terrence. Terrence does not move the needle for them. And they and us know it. 4. MIA - doesn't have a first rounder they can trade except their 2020 first rounder. Doesn't have a high second rounder they can trade unless they go bad in 2017. Not to mention, MIA has to lose $6 million off their cap this season to avoid becoming luxury tax repeaters this season and put them in jeopardy next season. It's lazy dreaming to believe MIA will pop off a low first or high second for Terrence. 5. WAS - They're currently in the lottery. Does Terrence put them in the playoffs? They'd have a high second to give us except they don't own their 2016 second. And they're playing small with Dudley and others at the 4. I suppose they could send us Dujuan Blair and their first for Terrence to be their 4th or 5th big. If you were Washington would you do that??????????? 6. IND - they have Mahinmi, Lavoy Allen, and Jordan Hill as their primary bigs and they are playing small with George at the 4. And they've got Rakeem Christmas waiting in the wings. They would have a low first to give us. And they have expressed they want to move out Solomon Hill. But he isn't enough salary to get a deal done so they've go to throw in a second player with him and that first rounder they're gonna give us. Glen Robinson III, Joseph Young, SHayne Wittington? Unless you think they'll give us Myles Turner for Terrence? We'll take any of those deals obviously. Frankly I'd love to get my mitts on Glenn Robinson III and Indy's first rounder for Terrence. But...there's simply no reason for Bird to make those deals. Terrence doesn't help them go to the next level. You know it. 7. NOP - a team going to the lottery. They don't have a first to give us. They do have a decent second rounder to give us. But they've got to send us a player. And there's the first problem. Norris Cole? Dante Cunningham? Gee and Luke? What incentive does NOP have to give up one of their good seconds in order to pay Terrence big money in 2016 and tie up their cap in the process??? Yep, they've got a LAC's first. And they've got Scola and PPat gobbling up the minutes at the 4. They'd have to send us James Johnson. Great, we'll take James Johnson and the Clips first in a heart beat. Why hasn't this happened yet? Is Terrence better than Scola and PPat so that he could steal minutes from them?? Jonas and Biyombo in the middle. He ain't getting minutes there. Uriji??? malakas, you've been promoting this trade for how long now???? And it hasn't happened. Know why??? Because Uriji knows he can get Terrence for a lot less than LAC's first.
Brewer was a great shot in the arm for the Rockets last year, had key games for the Mavs in the title run, and was one bright spot for the Wolves the past years before. He has value as a basketball player or teams wouldn't keep trading for him. Yeah on this years Rockets, and especially on his current contract, his value is hot garbage, but around the league he's got value to the right team. A team like the Cavs needing faster easier buckets, and versatility to switch defenders against the likes of the Warriors and Spurs, he's got value. At the price he costs though... I don't see the Rockets moving him for nothing in return. They'll certainly need to take back salary in return. Not sure if Varejao for Brewer works, but a deal like that is what you are looking at. The Rockets haven't yet used their waive and stretch provision yet so I wouldn't be shocked if they kept him till the Summer and then used this provision if they needed cap space. I'm not even going to bother discussing Jones & trade scenarios. I could literally repeat every word you say about him, and you'd probably still disagree because in your mind I'm a Jones Only fan. Nothing I could say would allow you to NOT vilify me to suit your narrative and need to create an opposition to your argument that nobody is arguing against.
For what it's worth, I don't think you are a "Jones only fan", I just think that you are one of the last few holdouts that still greatly overrate him. He's not a very good rebounder, he's an awful defender, and he doesn't bring much offensively. If Morey can sell some team on that being a missing piece, great. Really Brewer and Jones are similar players, they are guys that derive almost all of their value from transition. They are actually pretty damn good in transition but they are either nothing special or outright awful in pretty much every other area. If a team is missing a transition player that is a liability defensively then sure, maybe we pawn one of them off on them.
Ahahaha. Bballholic: find me a team by going through the needs of other teams. You find him one : bballholic: why hasnt it happened yet? Lmao From now on when Bballbolic gives his wacky ideas thats the way to reply to him. Oh why hasnt it happned yet? Why we havent SMH blackmailed ainge? Why we havent traded jones for a second? Why we havent done all this crazy conspiracy things u think we can? Just straight up bullcrap and circular logic. So for anyone who does NOT have an agenda or doesnt poccess a pathological obssesion to sadistically always attack everything terrence jones know this: jones vlaue is much more than the crap that bballholic suggest.
Theres no team in the league that correy brewer has value to. Varejaos last year is unguaranteed making his contract much better than brewer not to mention he is Lebrons buddy. Brewer has been a scrub who was traded for peanuts only last year and since then he has managed to make his value even worse. Now hes an overpaid scrub. Not a single team in the league has a need for brewer or his contract wkthout taking back serious incentive or dumping back a equally bad or worse contract.
Bull crap is thinking Uriji is going to give up a first rounder for the privilege to overpay an underperforming Terrence. We would have already done that deal for Terrence if it were on the table. In fact we would have done any deal for Terrence last year if we could've gotten a first for him. But it simply wasn't there. And it's not there now.
He gave 11 per to terrence ross so better educate yourself before saying what he can or he cant do. You have no idea if this deal has or hasnt been on the table. Because you have no sources. And you have no idea if we said no because jones is ths sweetener we desperately need to get off brewers toxic contract.
This thread is about trade asset value. If you think Terrence is worth a first (not some theoretical value but real market value), then why don't you go ahead and tell us what players like DMo, Clint, Harrell, McDaniels, and Dekker are worth.
He is entertaining, though, in a raise-your-blood-pressure kind of way, isn't he? His posts contain so much anti-Terrence Jones vitriol ("he's garbage, he's barely worth a second rounder") that it's tough to take anything of his seriously. Case in point. "Terrence Jones is so bad. Well, if he's worth a first, then DMo must be worth the #1 pick in the draft. Clint, #2 pick in the draft. Harrell, #5 pick in the draft. McDaniels, #6. Dekker? Well, he's still worth #18, because Terrence Jones is a rimjob from a leper colony hooker."
If recognizing that Jones actually isn't the worst S$%# to ever touch a basketball than I guess I'm guilty of overrating him as an actual basketball player, and not whatever it is you think he is.... of course in your opinion. Keep in mind that everything here an on this site is just that.... opinion. Folks like Jopat actually act like they are an enlightened being where "If I write it... they will come". I don't think Morey really has to sell in the traditional sense. Knowing how Morey handles trade talks (has talked before about his consultative sales approach, and systematic sales funnel management on radio interviews) lets me know that his number one goal is to probe to understand what their needs are, and help them find a solution that helps both sides. If your needs are to shed salary... here's how I can help, and here is the cost. If you need to speed up tempo, here's how I can help. Brewer has X stat, and Y stat that shows he can increase your teams tempo by Z amount. etc. etc. That's why this subjective argument about value is so absurb, and outside of the reality of how these deals happen. I do think Morey is the aggressor, but its an aggressive approach to find out what's important to them, and what they are interested in. If it has nothing to do with a versatile big, and they are needing PG help, or if its financial only, he might never even mention Jones because its not relevant. However there are a TON of teams in the NBA that could really use versatile big man help in their rotation. Argue Jones all you want, but as long as teams have the NEED for your guys, despite how poor they are playing for your team, there is always a chance for a deal.
