SO true! I think people fail to realize that Jordan is a young fella that the Rockets want to develop. Surounding him with veteran players like MIller and Yao can immensely improve him game. I mean, COME ON, Miller and Yao both have All-star histories and were scoring machines. Look at what Miller did in Chicago, he helped mold Joakim into the player he is now. Miller helped polish Noah's skills (even with that ugly two-handed shot). With the versatility of Miller and Yao's talents, Hill can become a very good player. All the Rockets need to do is force Hill to bulk up and add some muscle. Dwight is 6-11 and Hill is 6-10, with some muscle added HIll can be a poor-man's Dwight :grin:
Why do people keep bringing the Rudy Gay trade, when talking about what Morey has done as a Houston GM??? Rudy gay is a very talented OVERPAID SF, he is not a franchise player, he can be your number 2 guy on a contending team, nothing more. People act like we did the Battier trade to be better long term, but fail to realize that it was to win back then, when we had Mac plus Yao.... It was actually a perfect trade, Battier was the best perimeter defender in the league, and was a corner 3 specialist, a key factor on a team that had a interior presence, plus a wing that made plays for himself and others. Back then Battier >>>>>>>>>> Gay, so the trade was great, because the coach and GM, felt that we were that close to a ring. But that is the past, right now, Gay is a good solid player that plays both ends. I don´t understand how people make this great theory about tanking to draft a superstar, saying that Martin, AB and Scola are not good enough, (to be 2nd guys on the team), but then say that we made a huge mistake, not maintaining a guy like GAY, that will make 19M in the last year of his contract, and is leading a team, that right now, is more talented then the Rockets, with a mediocre 12-16 record. His game is at the same level as Iggy, Joe Johnson and Danny Granger (some of them are better offensively, some are better defensively), and we all now how horrible JJ contract is, and the majority of the people think IGGYS contract is bad, and he will make less the Gay, I am sorry, I would not pay 19M to him, at least right now (he can get better) I know he is young, but that it is even worst, because his next contract will be superstar level, and he doens´t have game for that, but please understand, the point of this post is not about hatting on GAY, I would be glad to have him, but paying that contract to him, this early in the career, would cut the flexibility of a contender, IMO I continue to think, that the best way to rebuild is about wining as much as you can, value your assets, and go out there and try to make trades for young studs/sleepers, that are in bad/unwilling to wait organizations, and gamble. That gamble is 100% less risky, then having 2-82 seasons, people losing interest on the Rockets, and end up with a number 5 pick, with a very weak draft class. Some people didn´t realize yet, this league has changed alot and quickly, this league is not about drafting a stud, build around him, and 5 years latter win a ring.... Players now, are drafted by not great franchises with losing mentalities, have fun during the first years, keep losing, they sign the 2nd contract, they get overpaid, because the team wanted to maintain the player that keeps people interested, and after that, he will go away to a better team and try to win...... I will bet with you, that Durant will not win a ring in OKC and after this contract expires, he will change teams.... And don´t forget, this OKC team is probably the "example franchise", for organizations that try and build from the draft, and Durant (until now) is a example of professionalism. (SORRY FOR THE BOOK) PeAcE
Why do you guys think Miller help Hill more than Scola or Hayes do? Any official report? Did Hill himself say anything about it?
Dealing for Shane Battier was done with the assumption that McGrady and Yao would be here to handle the scoring load. At the time, Houston needed a shut down defender. It made sense to trade an unproven and unnecessary commodity for a proven and necessary commodity. I also don't think you're giving his negotiating skills enough credit. He seems to have a knack working himself into deals in which we are able to charge other teams a premium for helping them achieve their goals. It's apparent that his staff is very alert and active. Getting Scola for peanuts was nice, but did you already forget about the blockbuster trade from last year? Trading away McGrady's rotting corpse was an artful maneuver to say the least. Just when the future of the franchise was looking bleak, he brought in quite the haul: 1 minimally protected lottery pick swap, a projected lottery pick, Jordan Hill AND Kevin Martin! If he hadn't of pulled that off, where the hell would we be now? That by FAR is his biggest accomplishment. And so what if Budinger (TBD), JTaylor or Dorsey don't pan out? All he can do, like I said before, is take a calculated gamble and hope that the coaching staff maximizes a player's potential. For every Andersen, there's multiple counter examples such as Lee, Lowry, Brooks, or Landry. Thus far, all our trades have been low risk, high reward. I'd rather have constant improvement than making changes for the sake of change like Orlando. We are lucky we don't have an Otis Smith here. He's a generally well regarded GM, but look how dumb he looks by letting Turk walk and subsequently trading critical pieces just to get him back. As far as calling for the recognition of injury prone players and trading away superstars before their eventual decline, I'd say that's undeserved criticism if not plain silly. You really think Alexander would have approved shipping out his cash cow, Yao Ming, because some newbie GM was worried about potential injuries ending his career? Yao is a risk he had no choice but to take. Before you point to the decline in regular season wins again, realize that it was due to the loss of three championship pieces we've been forced to relinquish during the Morey era, none of which were Morey's fault. Suppose TMac and Yao had stayed healthy, not only would Artest probably still be here, but the roster around our superstars would have been getting better too. We might have had a championship ring to show for it. Sometimes the dice just don't roll your way. Aside from not getting in on the Michael Beasley trade, nothing I've seen so far makes me feel less confident that this staff will be ready to pounce on opportunities to improve the team when they make themselves available.
I think all three are helping Jordan develop his game, both in games and in practice. What I really like about Hill, however, is that he's so unlike all three. We've desperately needed a guy who plays the way Hill plays, for a long time.
Don't forget that Carl Landry was also in that deal, who was amongst the NBA's leading 4th quarter scorers at the time. I know Martin was seen as a huge coup by Morey.. but keep in mind that we were 28-25 before acquiring Martin. We went 12-12 in games he played after we acquired him. This year, we're 12-15 in games he's played. I know we want to put him on the mantle because of his shiny 20PPG, but our record has not really changed much from where it was pre-Martin. I agree that the reason for the decline is the absence of two of our former center pieces. I was just pointing out that you're saying we're continually getting better when our record only shows us continually getting worse. We weren't forced to let go of Artest. The Rockets didn't see him in their long-term plans and let him walk. And I do have confidence in Morey -- but I think it's dumb to trash fans for second-guessing him. It made sense to trade a potential franchise caliber SF for a role player when McGrady only played 47 games the year before? They traded for Shane Battier because they thought we were close to winning a title and he would take them over the top. They were wrong. It was a gamble that we lost on.. it was a bad trade.
Hill seems to be in a great position for a developing young big. He's surrounded by standup, hard-working veterans, and he has a coach who will give him the minutes if he's willing to work for them. Getting traded from the Knicks was probably the best thing to happen to him.
Now that the Yao situation is coming to a end, I love the position the Morey has put the Rockets in. The CBA is coming up and Morey has stock piled many assets. The Rockets are flexible and every team in the league will be looking at the Rockets as trade partner come the trade deadline. Some might even want Yao's contract. Everyone's on the block now, Yao and Brooks included. Lee doesn't make me miss Trevor one bit. Still happy Bosh is not here. I love Yao, but now that he's out I can see some light. I see the glass as half full, not half empty. I trust the Rockets org. to do the right thing. IMO, Morey is still god.
Rudy Gay was traded in the 2006 draft. DM didnt become GM until 2007-2008 season... while he may have influenced the trade for Battier, it wasnt his sole decision alone. I'm not quite sure why Rudy Gay is so highly regarded in the garm and feel that was the worst trade in Rockets history. The guy hasn't led his team to anything and is nowhere near a SUPERSTAR but gets paid like one. A superstar should be able to put his team on his back and carry his team. Rudy Gay has not done that.
I thought those players were slightly overpaid too, but in hindsight I love that Morey paid only what it took to outbid other suitors and nothing more. And reportedly, Miller actually took less money to come to Houston. Unlike other GMs, I have yet to see Morey bid against himself.
Development in the weed game... B. Miller and Hill have been devouring the HTown chronic. Miller, Renaldo Balkman, and Young Money rep and Houston resident J.R. Smith are well-known kush kings in the area, and J. Hill's joining the cause. Also, Chase's recent decline has been due to excessive partying. He seems shy on the surface, but kid hits the clubs hard... plus, he's been known to puff a bleezy or two.
I didn't forget, but probably should have since it only bolsters my argument. Buy low, sell high = improvement. We got Landry's potential replacement in Hill. What I said was, besides the loss of our championship pieces which was beyond our control, the roster has been continually improving. Plus, he was able get considerable salvage value back for one. Agreed. He is by no means a God, and I don't think anyone honestly thinks that. Let's hope not anyway. At the time, Shane was a better player that filled a need on a contending team. I suppose you can argue both ways. I don't know what the directive from management/ownership was at the time... win now or keep building? We can't know for sure how much Morey factored into the decision, since IIRC, CD was still officially in charge. Perhaps if he was told to help rework the roster to keep building he would have stuck with Rudy. It's worth noting again though that Rudy is an overpaid psuedo-superstar who hasn't taken the Grizz anywhere and only increases the difficulty of doing so with his albatross contract.
I agree. We need to fire Morey and hire Danny Ferry. Now THAT GUY knows how to win. Turned around a bad Cleveland franchise into a winner.
LOL that'd be so epic if it were true... hmmm Miller and Hill do seem real chill, they got good chemistry today Miller was getting punked by Cousins and Hill came to rescue of his fellow blade :grin: it must be stoner love
Completely agree with OP but I'd like to distinguish one thing - some moves don't pan out because of bad luck, and other moves do pan out because of good luck. Try to stay balanced. There are good trades, bad trades, useless trades, luckily good trades and unluckily bad trades. It's not always black and white. Morey makes mistakes for sure, but his overall body of work shows that he's a fantastic GM. I'll be watching intently to see if he has what it takes to turn a very good team into a contender. THAT is usually the litmus test for star players, coaches, GM's, etc. THAT is the big hump they need to get over. You take Rudy T for example. That guy was a great tactician, and he wasn't great with young players, but he had what it took to take an air tight roster and win a championship. It's also exactly what distinguishes Phil Jackson. Yes, he has always had great talent on his teams, but year in year out there are coaches who fail to win it all with one of the most talented rosters in the league. He gets it DONE.
Losing Rafer really hurt us in the playoffs that season. Brooks was good, but inconsistent. Having a steady floor-general like Alston could have real helpful.
I don't know if you guys were active around Clutchfans at the time, but it was widely reported that the Battier trade was all Morey. He went to Les Alexander with his evaluation of it and got the thumbs up to proceed. In CD's last year, he was more of a puppet showing Morey the ropes before he took over. As far as why people make a big deal about Rudy Gay... uhh, have you seen Shane Battier play? Gay is MUCH better, can actually create offense, and would be a huge asset for us if we still had him. We brought in Battier to 'win-now'.. we didn't advance into the second round until we brought in Artest. Do you think we would have still advanced if we had Gay in his third year vs. Battier? I do. Even if we let Gay get 'overpaid' by another team, it would likely have been through a sign-and-trade leaving us with a sizable trade exception and future draft picks. What are we getting for Shane Battier when his contract runs out? I don't understand why that bolsters your argument. Technically, we had a better record with Landry than we do with Martin. I'm scratching my head at this 'continually improving the team' when the one stat that matters, wins and losses, shows otherwise. You guys are taking these big assumptions on what our future holds for us, but right now the stats don't back them up. Hill wasn't as good as Landry last year. He isn't as good as Landry this year. He's Landry's replacement, but let's not act like it was Aaron Brooks replacing Rafer Alston. Hill has a ways to go before we can consider him equal to what Landry brought to this team -- Landry was one of our team's most consistent players. Jordan Hill has been one of our most inconsistent.
LongTimeFan, I actually get where you are coming from, but I just disagree with your conclusions and perceptions. My goal with this thread was not to "celebrate" our current state. I think we can agree that none of us are satisfied with where we are at. Morey has said as much himself. It was more directed at the air-chair GMs who complained about all of our "questionable" moves at the time. Those questions have now been more or less answered. The answer being: we as fans are just not as smart. That doesn't mean we are championship caliber now, just that management is doing their job to improve the team incrementally, irregardless of our at times misguided fan perceptions. You obviously do not necessarily agree with that statement, and I would like to address a few of your complaints: 1. a)We are 12-15. How are we improving? Our moves must not have improved us. b) We traded for Battier to push us over the edge. Since we didn't win a championship, the trade was a failure. The answer to both these issues, and many more that you are harping on, is not related to basketball at all. It is more of a logical fallacy: If I have a weighted coin that will give me heads 70% of the time, I will put my money on heads. If the flip gives me tails, once or even 10 times in a row, it does not mean my decision to bet on heads was wrong. You are basing your judgments completely on the outcome. Now there is something to be said of being results-oriented, that is not all bad. In fact it is good. But in a business where probability/luck is involved, you just cannot judge each move in isolation. You have to take a longer term view, with an approach of evaluating a portfolio of transactions. 2. The Battier trade. At the time Morey was part of the evaluation process, but not the sole executor of trades. While there is no doubt that Battier was brought up by Morey, the actual trade was transacted through Dawson. The one problem I have with the trade is not so much who we got back in return, but how much we got back in return. If we could have included Lowry in the trade at the time, I would have been fine with the whole thing. And that- the actual negotiations- falls on Dawson.
