IzakDavid's post was a rebuttal to assumptions about founders' perceptions of Islam, based on a separate historical incident. You could have probably found a more meaningful rebuttal than likening Christian advocacy to fellatio. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli
Hey buddy... Israel is compromised of humans. Humans **** up. They aren't infallible. I criticize my own country for past civil rights violations. Can you admit that Israel once in a while violates civil rights? Or is that too much to ask while Israel's **** is shoved up your mouth?
1) No need to be vulgar. 2) It's a difference to say that Israel - like most other countries, yours included, every day - has violated civil rights in the past (sure it has) or to put words into someone else's mouth like New Yorker did ("Palestinians don't deserve civil rights because they aren't human" - what a dumb statement).
**** that. Read the entire article. He posted the article as evidence which suggests that he supports the message of the article. The article marginalizes Muslim Americans so again... **** him and I hope with all his Jesus worshiping he can one day actually follow his message of tolerance.
Your infallible love of Israel entails what Sweet Lou 4 2 stated. You really are one hypocritical scumbag. On one hand you create threads and 'call out' posters for their 'selective' outrage over civil rights violations yet you just admitted that Israel has in the past acted out civil rights violation. I have NOT ONCE seen you condemn them. In fact, anyone who does have the audacity to criticize Israel is apparently a ****ing Nazi anti-semite according to you.
Seems like Franklin was very nearly prescient, though his bias didn't allow him to see that it was the banking profession, not the Jewish race, which would take over and fundamentally transform our country into one of serfs and lords.
Seems like you woke up in a bad mood. Anyway, there are enough people on here hating on Israel every day so that it is not necessary for me to add on to their gripes about Israel. But yes, I have said in the past that I disagree with Israel's settlement policies. And if there is actual evidence (not just Pallywood) that Israel overstepped the boundaries and did it in fact commit a civil rights violation, I will criticize that. But I stand by my statement that Israel has a right to defend itself. The terrorist organization Hamas is the aggressor that keeps shooting rockets at Israel and that keeps sending suicide bombers who indiscriminately murder civilians.
Really? Look at the thread listings for the past 4 pages on the D&D and count the threads criticizing Islam and count the threads criticizing Israel. Again, how many threads have YOU started that criticized Israel for their transgression. You still unwilling to criticize Israel's use of disproportional force in Gaza.
Judging by your anger regarding this issue, I can see that while you have rationally started freeing yourself from the shackles of the ideology you were brought up with, you have not yet freed yourself from the additional baggage that came with it, which is painting Israel (and Jews) in a negative light. That seems to be an almost unanimous consensus among Muslims, anywhere in the world. It's interesting to see that that attitude can be traced back all the way to Mohammed who slaughtered hundreds of Jews - they have always been the enemy. It's part of the identity of Islam, it seems. And yes, I am prepared for more unprovoked profanities from you after this post.
You seriously do not understand what de-conversion from a faith you were raised in entails. Usually it entails being rebellious of all prior notions that your belief system entails and that includes irrational fear or hatred of Jews which btw my parents and local Musjid never propagated. So, with full confidence I can state that my criticism of Israel comes from a neutral perspective. I do feel somewhat dirty that I have to explain to a troll such as yourself that I'm not a anti-semite. But you did (intentionally?) prove my assertion that any criticism of Israel is automatically labeled as an ideological hatred of Jews by you.
Rational human: "Israel has a tendency to employ disproportional amount of force" ATW: "Why you hate Jews?!"
I think it's vastly different when it comes to Islam. With christianity, e.g. in Germany, you go to some government office, state that you are no longer a member of that church - done. It's your own decision and your own business. With Islam, in some countries it is threatened with the death penalty to leave Islam (which is actually something that can arguably be taken right out of the Quran itself), and even where that isn't the case, that doesn't even start to address the social stigma and family pressure that comes with such a step. So, no, I obviously cannot know from first hand experience what it means to leave Islam, but I have an idea. Edit: I never meant to claim that your parents raised you to hate Jews or anything like that. But Islam itself has, in its history, the Jews as the enemy. And I am very sure that most Muslims I have spoken to have very strong anti-Israel views. No, not any criticism, but I think that in your case, your upbringing and surroundings play a role in how you view Israel. And I read this from many posts, even from the much more moderate Muslims on this forum - one thing that unites them is that they are all staunchly anti-Israel. E.g. sammy, whom, along with you, I consider a voice of reason. But I can see from his posts that he gets fed with anti-Israel propaganda. And I think that is true for almost all Muslims in the world. There is a reason that Turks view Israel in a more negative light than they view ISIS (which is utterly absurd, when you think about it). And no, I do not view any criticism of Israel as ideological hatred of Jews. But I will admit that it is hard to ignore the fact that much of what comes from Muslims and people from the left against Israel is ideologically tainted. I would encourage you to go visit Israel. It's a beautiful country, and relatively free compared to its neighbors. Does that mean everything they do is right? Of course not. But the other aspect of my posts here is that this sub-forum is heavily skewed towards the left and towards the Muslim view of the world (which, as I said, is very anti-Israel). So I provide a bit of a counter-balance. When I speak to friends in real life about it, I am more critical. But here are some things I can tell you I am against when it comes to Israel: - First of all, they have their own fanatics and hardliners (like these crazies who refuse to sit next to women on planes). They are not better than Islamists. - Their settlement policies are disingenuous and counterproductive to the peace process. - Their response to some of the aggression they encounter has been disproportionate at times in the past. - They have crossed the boundaries of what is permissible under international law when it comes to some of their secret service operations (e.g. assassinations in foreign countries). - They also have weird religious rules which intrude too much into every day life (silly things like you can't have milk with a coffee if you had a steak before). With regard to all of that, I still think they have done much less evil than any of the countries surrounding them, however (just think of Syria constantly having murdered politicans in Lebanon, etc.). And overall, they stand for individual freedom, whereas most of the regimes around it stand for repression.
What a convenient notion. Any criticism of Israel from me is automatically placed in the "He was raised that way" bin. BTW, in the United States, leaving Islam and leaving Christianity is all the same. Both are protected by the federal government and both groups are EQUALLY shunned and ostracized by their families. Luckily, I have amazing parents who have not shunned me. Your assumptions about my notions of Israel are self evident in your second part of your posts. "I would encourage you to go visit Israel. It's a beautiful country, and relatively free compared to its neighbors."... Seriously? Where did I ever state that Israel is some totalitarian state where it's citizens are oppressed? Israel has many beautiful areas and the girls are ridiculous cute there. I have criticized Islamic theocracy more so than Israel's use of disproportionate force. God dammit, why does it sound like I'm freaking apologizing and appeasing you for my criticism of Israel's policies. I have not stated anything in my post history that warrants me to have a defensive attitude that I'm not an anti-semite. **** that. Israel deserves it's criticism and anyone who does criticize Israel is not automatically an anti-semite. You on the other hand still love premature accusations.
That's good for you. But I do not believe that they are equally shunned and ostracized by their families, simply because there is no rule in Christianity that apostasy is sanctioned in any way. That, by the way, is a huge difference between Christianity and Islam. The Mafia will kill you for leaving their club. Your local sports team will not. I will try to address any future criticism of Israel by you on its merits rather than based on your background. OK?
What's the point of this article, you have to be radically right to want to debate it. No one wants to ban freedom of religion, that's whack. But on the subject, below is a map of religious intolerance in the world. It shows every country that has punishments for apostasy -
You know little of American culture especially American Muslims. There have been hundreds of accounts of ex-Christians being harassed and ostracized by their parents. You probably haven't even heard of the "pray away the gay child labor camps".
I am aware that Christianity, especially in the USA, has its own fair share of nutters. But there is still no rule in Christianity that apostasy is sanctioned. And you will not find any country with a Christian majority with a law that punishes apostasy. On the other hand, you will find many Muslim countries with such laws. That's just a fact.
Islam. The prophet explicitly performed corporal punishment for thought crimes(blasphemy in particular). Did I ever state otherwise? But don't act like all (past and present) Christians treat their apostates all hunky dory. State oppression isn't the only type of oppression. Individual families can oppress also.
I would also like to point out that I have been quite restrained and tried to address your points, despite having been called several names and having been insulted in a quite vulgar and primitive way by you. Have a nice day.
