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Our defense NEXT year. Good enough to be a contender?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by meh, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. DieHard Rocket

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    As long as we have Yao in the paint taking up space, it's enough to make teams think twice about going to the basket.

    Perimeter defense is more about mentality and discipline rather than actual skills. Martin, Ariza, and Budinger are all capable of being good team defenders. Lowry already is. Brooks and Scola are the only potential liabilities.

    If you look at the Adelman Kings team that nearly (should have) made the finals, Christie was the only guy you could really say was anything close to a defensive specialist. I don't think opposing teams were too worried about Peja, Brad Miller, or Vlade.
     
  2. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    I think Battier and Ariza can play on the same team, but I don't think the Battier/Ariza/Jeffries thing will work. If we can get rid of Jeffries for a big man we're good with this rotation:
    Brooks/Lowry
    Martin/Budinger
    Battier/Ariza or Ariza/Battier
    Scola/Andersen/Hayes
    Yao/???/Hayes.
    Hayes could alternate back and forth between the power forward spot and the Center spot or even the small forward position. This provides versatility in case of injury.
     
  3. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    Meh:

    - Brooks/Lowry will be a Smith/Cassell situation and Adelman will allow the one that's playing better to close. If you need a late game stop, Adelman can put out a lineup of Lowry, Ariza, Battier, Jeffries, Yao.

    - Jeffries is a wild card. Contract year next year. Provides length to play PF/C. Question is whether he can provide anything on offense. If so, he and Yao can close the paint.

    IMO, in today's NBA, great teams are efficient on offense and put pressure on the other team to keep up. The great teams can play excellent defense in spurts to create runs that break a game open. I think that's the mold that Morey is trying to build, rather than a grind it out, defense focused team, that lacks offensive talent.
     
  4. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    Wasn't saying they were comparable in skill, simply that the scheme of having a big man to erase mistakes is the same.
     
  5. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    Playoffs are about matchups, and these worries relate directly to the elite Western Conf teams.

    Lakers:
    Nobody matches up well against the Lakers, but we do as well as anyone:
    - Brooks to take advantage of Fisher/Farmar
    - multiple defenders to throw at Kobe

    The interior length of the Lakers is hugely problematic as they defend the rim and rebound, but Yao/Scola/Ariza is no embarassment.

    Our bench is going to have to be a difference maker.

    Denver
    I think we match up great against Denver and I'd pick us in a 7 game series.
    - Yao/Scola/Jeffries/Hayes is enough size to combat Nene/Andersen/Kmart. Yao's size and skill present huge problems (if Yao's healthy)
    - Battier and Ariza to combat Melo. Frankly, Battier routinely forces Melo into bad nights.
    - Billups is a problem, but Lowry can defend well enough.
    - Martin is a significant advantage for us, and more than cancels out the punch that Smith provides.

    Portland
    If healthy, we beat Portland. Period.
     
  6. thcdrummer007

    thcdrummer007 Member

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    I agree. While Yao does not get 3-4 blocks per game, he does alter a lot of shots and makes the opposition think twice about driving into the paint. I think our defense will be just fine next year.
     
  7. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    That's great, but what are the odds we face those teams next year? The west is always changing. I'll analyze the other teams we could face

    OKC
    -They don't have anyone to stop Yao, so he'll tear it up
    -we can probably contain durant with battier/jeffries/ariza
    my guess: we'd sweep them or beat 'em in 5 games
    Dallas
    This would be a drag-out fight between bitter rivals. Both teams are loaded with good players and have a deep bench if everyone is healthy we could pull out a close one in game 7 just because Dallas is aging.

    San Antonio
    -Duncan can't stop Yao
    -No one I can think of who can stop the other players on the team
    -SA is aging fast
    -we could easily shutdown their offense
    We'd beat em in 5

    New Orleans
    -no one to stop yao,ariza,martin,brooks,lowry,or really anyone.
    -put battier on paul if need be but we probably won't need to
    SWEEP

    Utah
    -probably will be boozer-less so no one to stop Yao
    -AK-47 is a shade of what he was
    -we can stop deron williams, we've dealt with tougher
    win in 5 or 6

    Phoenix
    -stoudamire can't play d so yao burns it up
    -if they wanna run and play fast, we can do that, if we wanna play slow, they'll fail
    win in 5 or sweep

    The only matchup that might give some trouble is Boston, but I doubt they'll make it to the finals again.
     
  8. RocketRaccoon

    RocketRaccoon Contributing Member

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    I'm sure I have this info somewhere in the back of my head or at least read it here within the past 13 years, but GREAT to see it again. Thanks.
     
  9. choujie

    choujie Member

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    Hayes played with Yao so many games. He was the starting PF before Scola became a starter. That Yao/Hayes/Tmac/Battier/Rafer lineup had the best +/- in NBA before injurey happened. A heck of defensive lineup and Yao/Tmac provided enough offense for the starting 5.
     
  10. blink

    blink Member

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    our big men and wing players arent dominant enough to win a championship, let's be realistic here. teams that win championships have dominant players that make shots enough in the clutch to win, we dont have any of those players (like kobe/shaq/duncan/park-ginobli/hakeem/jordan).
     
  11. choujie

    choujie Member

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    You might want to take Shaq out. Offense went away from him in closing moments.
     
  12. blink

    blink Member

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    im going back to early 90s, so shaq was part of the dominant players that won championships.
     
  13. choujie

    choujie Member

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    Early 90s or late 90s? They went to Kobe at the end of the game in those Championship years. Robert Horry made clutch shots too.
     
  14. meh

    meh Member

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    To respond, it seems everyone's counting on two things, team defense and Yao. But I argued that we can't count on either anymore.

    Yao

    I think people are SERIOUSLY underestimating the departure of Deke. When we had Deke, we had arguably the best defensive center rotation for 40+ minutes on the court. Next year, that should drop down to around 25-30 minutes.

    Did you know how much Hakeem played in the playoffs during our championship runs? 43 minutes per game. And this included lopsided games where Hakeem would sit for a stretches at times. When the games are close, Hakeem basically played entire games. Yao can't even come close to that.

    I do think the Rockets can be a top tier defensive team with Yao. But I just don't think Yao will play enough to make us a great defensive team in an entire game.

    Team defense

    Yes, it's a good idea, but you can't just follow it blindly. You can say that JVG has good defense everywhere he went. Or that defense is mental. Well, that's both true and false.

    JVG sought out defensive players. Remember Bowen? Wesley? Alston? Battier? Hayes? You can improve your defense through the idea of team defense. But you can't magically make bad defensive players better. That's why I pointed out that in our recent run of top 5 defenses, never did we have as bad a combo of Brooks/Martin on defense.

    And as for defense being more about mentality... it applies more to players like T-Mac or Amare: physically gifted players who just doesn't give a damn on D. But Martin is 6-7 and 185. You can't even begin to play physical with that body. As for Brooks, 5-11 and also thin body. Did you see see how he made TJ Ford and Daren Collison look like superstars?
     
  15. meh

    meh Member

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    I don't agree with your assessment of today's NBA. I think fundamental defense is still a key to any top defensive team. LA for example has Odom/Gasol/Bynum as a trinity of tall, athletic bigs inside, and Ariza/Artest for perimeter defense. And I have no need to point out the level of defense SA, Boston, and Detroit played during their runs.

    On Jeffries, Knicks fans has been facepalming at his defense for a while now. I'd bet Hayes develop an offensive game before him.

    On a particular defensive lineup, that doesn't really work in practice. When you're in crunch time and the game's tied, you can't just put up a no-offense lineup and expect to shut down your opponent all the time. You need TWO WAY players. And we lack that.
     
  16. choujie

    choujie Member

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    We still have good defensive players though. Yao/Hayes/jeffries/Ariza/Battier/Lowry, it's just how to reconstruct the team to make the defense better and the all around game better.

    Yao/Scola/Ariza/Martin/AB wouldn't be the same defense as Yao/Scola/Ariza/Martin(or AB)/Lowry
     
  17. AggNRox

    AggNRox Member

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    no, plain and simple unless they improve the defense.
     
  18. LCII

    LCII Member

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    Our wing defense is gonna suck next year. Lowry and Ariza are okay, Battier is declining fast and won't be a good defender next year, and Martin and Brooks are subpar. Morey should draft a good defensive wing with our 2nd round pick next yr.
     
  19. Chronz

    Chronz Member

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    Yao will ensure the Rockets remain a good defensive team, its integrating him into a top flight offense that has yet to be seen. Luckily K-Mart is suppose to be one of those hella efficient scorers so the team is set on both ends. At least thats how it should work.
     
  20. meh

    meh Member

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    The problem is, Jeffries and Hayes shouldn't even be part of our rotation due to their anemic offense. Battier has shown clear signs of decline. And Lowry's a backup who unfortunately, is still just 6 foot tall and limited offensively. The Rockets only true two-way player is Yao. Scola's kind of above average, but not stellar on either end.

    It seems clear to me why Morey covet Bosh so much. He brings so much to the table, and would erase so much of our problems.
     

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