Our 93-95 championship rockets vs a Jordan equipped league..

the stats of MJ, in the 1995 playoffs have been posted here, and are the same than any year when MJ played the whole season. so you cant say he played bad on those games.

what the bulls didnt have in that series was a good PF, and thats why they lost.

 

pasted from a prior post I made

Total horse manure. MJ did play in the 1994-95 season, though it wasn't for the whole year...only 17 regular season games. When I mention that, people then try to counter with, "Well, he wasn't the same MJ because he only played a portion of the year", which couldn't be further from the truth (about him being not being vintage MJ). Proof? No problem. Let's look at MJ's stats in the 1995 playoffs in comparison to the 3 following championship seasons.

It should also be noted that the Bulls were eliminated by the Orlando Magic, a team that we SWEPT.

MJ's 1995 playoff stats (you know, when he wasn't "vintage MJ")

FG %: .484
3P %: .367
PPG: 31.5
RPG: 6.5
APG: 4.5

Now, his playoff averages during the 3 following championship seasons:

FG %: .459
3P %: .300
PPG: 31.4
RPG: 6.0
APG: 4.1

As you can see, MJ was superior in the 95 playoffs than he was, on average, in the 3 following champioship years, which should put the debate to rest. MJ was, in fact, MJ but the Magic were the better TEAM and we SWEPT the Magic. Therefore, the BS and ill-informed "MJ didn't play/MJ wasn't the same player" couldn't be further from the truth.

Critics and MJ homers might say, "But Blake, you used AVERAGES from the 3 other titles, you didn't compare year to year". No problem.

Using the 4 playoff seasons (1995-1998), Jordan averaged:

PPG:
1995-31.5
1996- 30.7
1997- 31.1
1998- 32.4

Second highest scoring average in 1995 playoffs

RPG:
1995- 6.5
1996- 4.9
1997- 7.9
1998- 5.1

Second highest rebounding average in 1995 playoffs

APG:
1995-4.5
1996- 4.1
1997- 4.8
1998- 3.5

Second highest assist average in 1995 playoffs

FG%:
1995- .484
1996- .459
1997- .456
1998- .462

Highest FG% in 1995 playoffs

3 point %:
1995- .367
1996- .403
1997- .194
1998- .302

Second highest 3pt % in 1995 playoffs

In conclusion, when anyone says to you that the 1995 NBA championship should have an * next to it due to MJ not playing or not being "vintage MJ", tell them about those stats and tell them to have a coke and a smile.

The point of this? Well, I'm tired of hearing people say that crap, even local Houston sports radio hosts. The fact of the matter is that basketball is a team sport and the Bulls did not have Rodman yet and were not the powerhouse that they became again when they signed him. Jordan WAS Jordan in the 1995 playoffs, but the Bulls just were not a good enough team.

The Rockets were...and we won it all. :grin:

 

as you know since you are a long time Rockets fan,

the Rockets REAL disrespect (Not the whiny Charles said this on TNT crap) will last forever.

When we beat the Knicks, it was "the Knicks lost the championship" and "Jordan wasn't there"

When we beat the Magic, suddenly nobody remembers that Jordan played that year.

The Rockets only had Hakeem.. hello? Robert Horry -yes he was CLUTCHER in Houston than in LA. Cassell? taking every team to the playoffs, Mario Elie? Kenny Smith? Otis Thorpe? HALL OF FAMER -Clyde Drexler? Vernon Maxwell, he who was not scared of the Jordan rules..

It's crap the youngsters don't get.

I've been on this board long enough to see the brainwashing of fans .

I mean someone mentioned that Hakeem never saw the NBA Finals til Jordan left.
Hello 86 Finals? Rockets vs Celtics?

I know these people are young. They drink the Cool Aid.. I mean Gatorade..

 

Agreed, tinman. And people also don't remember how freaking stacked the West was that season, either. Utah in the first round with Stockton/Malone in their primes, Phoenix in round 2 with Barkley/KJ in their primes then the Spurs (my all-time favorite series). Plus, we didn't have home court in ANY series

 

They played Toni Kukoc at the Power Forward Spot.

Their front line was Pippen/Kukoc/Luc Longley

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199505160ORL.html

Jordan=39 points

Kukoc + Longley = 8 total rebounds

Shaq=23 points and 22 rebounds

david_rocket, these brainwashed fans never saw that series. it was really easy to figure out why the Bulls lost and why the new Bulls with Rodman were so much better.

 

The Spurs were something like 5-1 vs. the Rockets in the regular season in '94-'95. Guess we had no chance against them in the playoffs.

The playoffs are another beast altogether. Those records don't mean anything. The Celtics this year played like they were going to get booted out of the first round. Instead they beat up on the 2 "best" teams in the East/NBA and are probably going to give the Lakers a run.

By the way, which 6 games are you counting when you say 5-1?

Who knows who would've won the matchup between the Rockets and Bulls in the playoffs. It would've been fun to watch, though. One of the greatest big men to play in the pivot vs. arguably the greatest to play the game.

 

Is remembering or is it that they never knew and they never saw it.
As I mentioned before, the day will happen where the majority of this board would never know the real story of Clutch City.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one

Trying to teach the brainwashed of the real Clutch City, it's the Kobayashi Maru test.

 

Those games did mean something because those teams never met in the playoffs. And those games were intense games.

Oh come on dude, must I remind you that the 95 Rockets team in the regular season had plenty of injuries and missed games by Olajuwon and Maxwell. Then we had a trade for Drexler and we never figured out the power forward issue until Rudy decided to play Horry at the 4 and make him jack up 3s.

If they did meet in the playoffs, you think an MVP Hakeem Olajuwon would suddenly have trouble against Cartright, Stacy King, and Wennington?

again, we beat their asses with any freaking combination of Rockets players from Maxwell to Avery Johnson and Buck Johnson.

And to your point, Shaq/Kobe was the considered the best of the 2k duos, weren't they suppose to DESTROY the Detroit Pistons??

the point. no assumptions!

 

Of course the Rockets deserve both championships. But some people are saying that if the Rockets made the finals a couple of other years in the 1990s, then they would have beaten the Bulls. That's plausible, but wouldn't there have been a chance that the Bulls would've beaten the Rockets had they made the finals in 1995. The argument is, that they didn't make it, so we deserved to win. That's the correct argument, but that also applies to us. We didn't make it to the finals against the Bulls, so we didn't deserve to win. We were in the playoffs in 96-97, but the Bulls still won. So the argument goes both ways.

 

the early 90s teams for the Bulls and Rockets were completely different than the late 90s teams.

Barkley vs Rodman would have been fun.

 

Jordan never won a championship without another Top-50 swingman at his side and an All-Star level Power Forward covering his backside on defense. When Hakeem won his championships, he had either an All-Star level Power Forward or a Top-50 Swingman on his team, but not both.

 

I hope at the Gates of Heaven, they ask people this question "Did Michael Jordan play during the Rockets championship runs?"

If they answer in correctly, they return to earth as a Chicago style hot dog, Vienna, all beef, celery salt, no ketchup

and a fat kid eats them.

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tinman again.

 

Great point!! The Knicks regularly beat the Bulls in the regular season during that time, and the expansion Raptors even swept the Bulls in one regular season. So based on these could you make the same argument that those two teams would have won over the Bulls in the playoffs, like similar arguments that since the Rockets had a better record in the regular season, then it was logical that they would have beaten the Bulls in the finals. As the poster stated, the playoffs is a different beast, and the Bulls have proven time and time again that they were different beasts when the playoffs came. Their championships have proven it and no amount of speculation and statistical tabulation would change that fact.

I know it is the offseason and we need to pass our time but this delusion of the Rockets beating Jordan's Bulls in a championship series is silly. The fact is that it never happened. The fact is, if the Rockets were so great, they had all those years to win all of the championships but they didn't. The Bulls won two three peats and the Rockets won two championships. If Hakeem is a basketball god and the Rockets were so great that they could beat the Bulls, why didn't they play in every finals against the Bulls. Ah they lost to "inferior" teams in the West so they couldn't get their hands on the Bulls. What silly arguments. Well this is the off season so dream on.

 

First of all there are major points here that were part of brainwashing.

1. Jordan didn't play in 95 or he wasn't "Jordan". (so was Kobe not Kobe against Detroit or Boston??_
-- look at the stats and why the bulls lost, it wasn't the myth at Jordan being rusty.

2. the devaluation of the Rockets championships
-- when people start saying they won because they didn't play the Bulls

3. the Rockets could not beat the Bulls period.
-- We beat the Bulls with 3 different coaches, Fitch, Chaney and Rudy T
we beat the Bulls with Sleepy Floyd, Buck Johnson, Avery Johnson, Vernon Maxwell etc

4. Stop lumping the 6 championships together. the First 3 championships were a completely different squad than the last 3.
Same with the Rockets. the championship Rockets were based on the early 90s

5. Start loving Rockets history and stop drinking that Gatorade and stop shopping for Hanes briefs

6. Clutch City is forever.

7. The NBA is all about matchups, see #1 Seattle vs #8 Denver, see #1 dallas vs #8 golden state

8. You can't predict anything. See Lakers (Shaq/Kobe) vs Pistons

 

Do you respect Michael Jordan? Do you respect what he says?

Cause this is what he said:

http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1549/rudy_t_reflects_on_rockets/
On the Rockets vs. Bulls debate

I finally got a chance to talk to Michael Jordan years [later] over at Barkley's house and he thought that the best matchup they would have had during that era was against us because of the way Max used to play him and how our big guys used to dominate their inside.

this was on this place called Clutchfans, a place created for those who love the Rockets, not the Bulls.

In case you didn't know that.

 

I still don't understand the obsession with devaluing our titles because Jordan wasn't playing by the fans and media. We won the same darn titles that evey NBA team had a chance to win and it wasn't our fault Jordan decided to step aside either because of his dad or his gambling problems. People can throw out numbers left and right but the reality is we will NEVER truly know what would have happened, sad but oh well I'll take my two titles and call it a day. Funny because if you ask EVERY NBA city during the 90s, not Chicago, Houston and SA, would they take those titles and it would even be a discussion.

 

Just to premise my post. I have always posted that the Rockets won the two championships fair and square and that should never be questioned.

You may argue your points about the Rockets beating the Bulls but the fact is that they never did. The Rockets had all the chances to beat the Bulls in a finals match all those years but they never did. The Rockets lost their chances by losing to other WCF teams in the playoffs. The Bulls won all their finals series and that fact cannot be denied and no amount of speculation or noise, excuses, justification can change that.

You said that the NBA is a game of matches, but there is also an argument that the playoffs is a totally different beast, and I have already made my argument on this warped logic of the Rockets beating the Bulls in the regular season therefore they would beat them in the playoffs.

It is interesting that you say the two three peats were different. The incontrovertible constant in all those championships were Jordan, Pippen and Phil Jackson. You may go through all the contortions of changing history but the historical facts are staring you in the face no matter how you may try to wish otherwise. The Bulls won their championships fair and square, and the Rockets did too. As to whether the Rockets could beat the Bulls, I seriously doubt it based on the FACT that they could not even beat the other WCF conference teams to get to the finals through most of those years. And it was not only the Sonics who beat the Rockets, there were various other teams too who did not have centers who could match up with Hakeem.

I have been a Rockets fan for more than a decade now, since I made Houston my home but facts are facts and not agreeing with delusionary ideas favoring the Rockets, I think, does not make one a Rockets hater. As much as everyone else in this bbs, I would like to enjoy another or more Rockets run at the championships, but as the shoe commercial said "Get Real."