our 2011 new york pick

I read somewhere that we have that pick and if we don't get it then we have the next 3 years in a row until we get a pick.

I found a link, but I am not sure how valid the source is. Can anyone verify?

Draft picks

 

Just curious - which teams, East and West, are better than the Knicks right now in your opinion from the non-play-off teams of '09 - '10?

 

To me, the trade was always about Kevin Martin. Everything else was gravy. If we can swap a low first round pick for a mid level pick, how can anyone be disappointed with that? With our draft history, no one here should dismiss the value of being able to move up a few spots. It's crazy to think anything less than moving into the top ten is a bust.

 

After four-straight years of Knicks Top 5 picks, then the Rockets get two 2nd-rounders for two consecutive years instead.

http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1552/terms_of_rockets-knicks_draft_picks_swap/

 

That's right, but that applies to the 2012 pick only. The 2011 pick can vanish. If the Knicks got the 2011 #1 pick or if we opted not to swap picks, then that part of the deal goes away and doesn't carry over like the 2012 pick does.

I don't think the pick is going to be worth much in a trade. Like BimaThug said, in all likelihood, it's going to be in the 8-12 range. Your trade partners are limited. You can't trade the pick to a team that's worse than NY because they wouldn't want to swap picks. And if you traded it to a team that was only marginally better, the opportunity to swap would only net them a few spots. You pretty much have to trade the pick to a good team in order for it to have some value.

The better the Knicks do in the regular season, the less likely we are to trade the pick if we haven't done so already.

 

To be honest I don't think the Knicks make the playoffs next year.

The Knicks right now are all offense and no defense, plus Amare isn't the best rebounder in the world nor the best defender, he also doesnt have Nash to put the ball on a platter for him. Felton is nowhere near the level of Nash.

They may have got some young talent from Golden State but it's still unproven talent.

Anyways look for them to missing out or getting in barely, but the main point is their pick will be ahead of ours which is good for us

 

If the Knicks are on track to win 45 games, Morey could always trade it to a team like Orlando who will likely be getting a very late pick.

Wait, we can trade the consideration to swap picks...right?

 

I'm in the boat the doesn't think the Knicks improved that much.

This is a team that already was tied for 3rd in the East and tied for 9th overall in scoring. What they need was defense. What they got was Amare and Raymond Felton. Oh, can't forge the defensive stalwarts that are Anthony Randolph and Azibuke...

Moreover, while it is obvious that Amare is the better offensive player than Lee, I think there is a tendency to underrate Lee's offense because it is put backs and fast breaks. As if those points don't count. Amare will score more, but not that much more. He doesn't run the break like he used to and he doesn't rebound like Lee did.

Felton's a nice pickup in that he's a much better shooter than Duhon, and a better defensive player.

I'd agree that the Knicks are better on paper. But a lot of the East is better.

Teams in the East that should definitely be better than the Knicks:
Heat
Celtics
Magic
Hawks
Bulls

Teams that will likely be better than the Knicks:
Bucks

Team that was better than Knicks last year by 15 games and has a better coach, but is nonetheless a question mark:
Bobcats

Teams that, imo, have improved equally or more than the Knicks in the offseason
New Jersey (can't deny they DO have talent and I think Avery is good for a lot of wins)
Philadelphia (picked up Evans, lost Dalembert but Spencer Hawes can play)
Washington (John Wall, last year's fiasco of a season behind them)

Knicks (this is the category I'd put the Knicks in. Amare, Felton, Randolph, etc. are improvements....BUT they lost Lee, had no draft picks, will never be good defensively and on paper aren't enormously talented)

I don't necessarily think those teams will make the playoffs, but they've at least improved in some ways, which means, relative to the Knicks, they would battle for a playoff spot.

Other east teams
Toronto (like what their GM did this offseason, but losing Bosh is losing Bosh)
Indiana (can't see them being good)
Detroit (see Indiana, though they're not completely devoid of talent)
Cleveland (who knows without Lebron. Obviously they will be much worse. But Scott isn't a horrible coach, and they don't have zero talent. Look for JJ Hickson to emerge)

All in all, I'd wager money today that 7 of the 8 playoff spots go to the same teams that made it last year with the Cavs as the one missing out.

I would slot the Knicks in as 8th, honestly, because while they will battle the other East teams, it seems like they have enough offensive talent to outscore their opponent often enough to sneak in. BUT, their the Knicks, and you never know.

If they miss the playoffs, as noted, it won't be by much. So right now, I put the worst case scenario as the 15th pick (i.e. the first non-lotto pick, the 8th seed in the East, if the Knicks, will certainly have a worse record then the West's 8th seed). I put the most optimistic scenario, absent a luck lotto ball bounce, as around where they were last year, say the 9th pick.

Clearly, this isn't as awesome as a top 3 or 5 pick. But while it hasn't worked as expected this offseason, ultimately, if you acquire enough assets, even if those are only great role player on a good team type assets, as a their projected pick would be, or as a lot of the current squad seems to be, you SHOULD be able to move some combination of those assets for a star player on a losing or otherwise struggling squad - it's happened time and time and time again.

 

WHOA, THERE!!!

I think you misunderstand what a trade of that swap right would mean. Since you are a fairly knowledgeable poster here, and since others may have the same thought in their minds, let me set this straight.

If the Rockets trade the 2011 swap right to another team, the "asset" being traded would be:

"The higher of the Houston Rockets' 2011 first round pick or the New York Knicks' 2011 first round pick (top-1 protected if New York receives the #1 overall pick)"

Of course, Morey can always put additional protections on that asset. Say, making it top-5 protected, with the Rockets holding the right to keep the pick if it lands #1 through #5 and agreeing to give a future pick to the third team.

The team to which that asset is traded does not have the right to switch ITS OWN pick with New York's. From New York's perspective, they are guaranteed the lower of their own pick or Houston's.

When people say, "let's trade the 2011 pick swap", they really mean the higher of the two picks.

 

The knicks aren't going to be much better next year. Amare is just going to replace lee. He might score more, but he won't rebound as well as Lee.

Amare is going to be like zach randolph. He'll put up stats, but his teams will suck. The d'antoni offense hasn't done jack squat in new york without nash running it. I expect more of the same next year.

 

Hope Yao can win one with the Heat.

 

your right morey will do what is thinks is smartest and best for the team. but im hopeful that the rockets hold on to it. just for the drama of it.