I have no idea how the title relates at all to the story I just read but whatever. What makes the average foreign players developement so much different from the average American kids developement, seriously, what are they doing so right that we are not doing? Can anyone answer that? I don't buy into the whole relying on our athleticism either. A great athlete is a great athnlete, they all rely on it to some extent so what are we doing wrong developing our talent or is this just a case of an old man whinig about the glory days? Either way the title is just plain dumb.
Grooming players with fundamental skills? Were there more American players with fundamental skills the NBA wouldn't likely be importing so many foreign born players. David Stern and the NBA can look to making the NBA a global league all they want but in the end it's the individual teams that draft the players and most of those teams draft players to win. I don't see how a finger can be pointed directly at David Stern as though he is the only one at fault here. Robertson, 65, wrote in an opinion piece in the New York Times: 'Just as America imports cheap labour from other countries to do the jobs Americans don't want to do, the NBA turns increasingly to foreign players who do have fundamental skills and an all-around approach to the game that fewer and fewer American players - even though they may be superior athletes - can be troubled to learn. 'The NBA has made a conscious decision to function as a marketing and entertainment organisation and seems much more concerned with selling sneakers, jerseys, hats and highlight videos than with the product it puts on the floor. [/QUOTE] But by turning to foreign players with superior all around games and fundamental skills aren't they trying to put the best product on the floor rather than just turning to our 'superior athletes'? and p.s. of course the NBA has made a conscious decision to function as a marketing and entertainment orgainsation. That's what they are. A business. Businesses tend to be interested in making money. It's a crazy world isn't it? (however, it's bad business to put a bad product out. The consumer will only buy it for so long) 'The league wants to extend its footprint worldwide, which is good, but only to the extent of creating individual heroes who can drive sales of licensed products in their countries - a short-sighted approach.' [/QUOTE] Huh? Robertson sees the growing number of international players in the NBA as a sign that the league lacks American youth with fundamental skills. [/QUOTE] It is. But whose fault is that? The NBA doesn't have control over what the fans ooh and aah over or what highlights are being shown on ESPN as a result of that. Nor do they have any control over the priorities our nations young players or their coaches put emphasis on. It isn't (directly) responsible for the year round tournaments that have our young players playing games every day year round instead of practicing fundamentals. In the end everybody is a little bit at fault. The players, the organizations, the coaches, the NBA, the fans. Everybody. Again, I don't see how the NBA can be singled out here as the one to point the finger at. A stellar guard in the 1960s and 1970s, he said the basic basketball lessons have been replaced by marketing-minded managers, with no schooling for raw talent. [/QUOTE] Why is that talent so raw in the first place? Players used to either be able to contribute upon arrival in the NBA or they didn't play in the NBA. I'm sure there are lengths the NBA could have taken to protect itself from the deterioration in skills and fundamentals the NBA has seen but is it all their fault? Why aren't players learning these skills BEFORE they ever arrive and what can the NBA do to encourage american players to learn those skills? I'd think looking elsewhere until they do learn them is the best way to encourage them to improve. 'Many of my colleagues and I ... are saddened by what the game has become,' he wrote. 'Professional basketball has been trivialised and dumbed down to the level of a highlight reel. Marketing and entertainment rule the day rather than putting the best product on the floor.' [/QUOTE] Well all of us who are aware of what the game used to be are saddened by what the game has become. But turning to foreign players isn't just a marketing ploy. It's a direct reaction to that. It's a step towards improving the product and putting players on the floor who are capable of more than just the highlight reel dunk. Robertson, nicknamed 'The Big O', was a three-time American collegiate Player of the Year who led the 1960 American Olympic gold-medal team. He was also the 1964 NBA Most Valuable Player with Cincinnati and won the 1971 title with Milwaukee. In the 1961/62 season, he averaged a triple-double - recording double digits in points, rebounds and assists per game. Not even Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan nor Kobe Bryant came close to that feat. [/QUOTE] Yeah, he was a bad mother ****er. 'Defences can't guard anyone properly and offences can't score,' he wrote. 'I pity coaches at any level who believe in and want to teach fundamentals when youngsters see players on TV with no fundamentals being paid huge sums of money.' [/QUOTE] While I agree with this statement to some degree, let's be fair here Big O. Your generation wasn't known for their defense. Wilt didn't score 100 points simply because his offense was THAT superior and games didn't regularly reach the 130-140 range purely because offenses were that adept. Some of that was less of a focus on defense. I've watched enough ESPN classic to know that. He lamented the fact that votes for last Sunday's NBA All-Star Game were in the hands of global fans and Internet access, instead of being decided by players. 'We have the spectacle of Yao, already an international marketing icon if not quite yet a fully-developed basketball player, starting at centre for the West instead of Shaquille O'Neal,' he continued. 'I think voting should be returned to the players - even if we don't have marketing degrees.' [/QUOTE] A couple things here. 1. I don't know that I buy the arguement that Shaq is more fundamentally sound than Yao. More experienced, tougher, more physically dominant, certainly. But more fundamentally skilled? I'm not so sure. 2. While the basketball fanatic in me would much rather see the players and coaches entirely in charge of who plays in the All-Star game instead of ignorant casual fans who vote for who they see in the Sprite commercial whether or not they've played a game or not this season there is also the reasonable part of me that understands that the NBA is a business and the reason we can enjoy the NBA is because they can make money. The fans have to want to watch the All-Star game. Even the ignorant ones. Now perhaps an arguement can be made that were the players and the coaches in charge of all-star voting then maybe the players the fans would want to see would eventually always be the best players rather than just the most popular, but I'm not so sure. Hell, it was the players and coaches who forced MJ into the starting line up last year despite the fact that even though he's the most popular basketball player of all time the fans still didn't think he deserved it that season. (and he didn't) The players are obviously not immune to the popularity over merit route. He cringes when he sees players like LeBron James turned into dunking highlight reels rather than became all-round skilful players. [/QUOTE] This is just a bad example. Considering LeBron James never played a day of college ball he is unbelievably skilled. He has one of the better all around games of any rookie to come around in a long long time. He still has some to learn but I honestly don't doubt he'll learn and improve those facets of his game in which he can improve. He's far more than a highlight reel. He obviously makes the players around him better and his statistics (including the improvement of his teams winning percentage) are comparable to the best of them. 'Team play is no longer considered sexy,' he wrote. 'Individual showmanship is. But one player, no matter how gifted, does not build a championship franchise.' All-round skills and defence took a back seat to slam dunks at the All-Star Game, building an American mentality that will likely never result in the NBA adopting less of a one-on-one orientation. [/QUOTE] Then why have the Kings and the Mavericks been fan favorites for the past few years? These are teams that focus on skills, are highly adept offensively and focus more on the team than any indivual player. Which is why the Kings win whether Webber is injured or not through out the season. I'm not saying that the bulk of the league isn't full of teams in which seem to have that individual showmanship mentality. Our Rockets are one of the better examples of that, but the NBA has pushed the Kings and the Mavericks as much as any other team. I don't think the league falling prey to an individual mentality is the fault of the NBA. If anything, I'd point the finger at the way the media glorified Jordan. Like Mike, if they can be like Mike! 'Even if basketball people were allowed once again to influence the strategic direction of the NBA, it would take them years to reverse the damage,' he wrote. -- AFP [/QUOTE] Yeah, the NBA is pretty messed up but when you blame the league, at least share some of it with us (the fans), the players, the coaches and hell, throw in capitolism for good measure because if they weren't still making heaps of money I promise you they'd figure something out. And I'm still baffled why foreign players seem to take heat in this article when they bring everything to the game the Big O claims is missing.
the point of Yao starting over Shaq in the asg relates to O's argument that players, not fans, should decide who plays. its not a new argument ... in itself hardly controversial. do some NBA players lack fundamentals? hell yes ... do you guys even watch the games???? and whats up with all the race crap? some folks just need the suggestion that the breeze may blow elsewhere and they draw out the tired ole race card.
Well I'm not exactly an expert in this field but I've read up on it some so I can tell you what I've read. They raise their athletes to be athletes. Kids who show promise go to special schools at young ages where they develop their skills as basketball players. They live at these schools in dorms. They practice every single day. They don't spend their year in tournament after tournament (that are generally sponsored by shoe companies and such) getting plenty of game experience but not nearly enough practice time. Some argue their education suffers but if that's the case somebody explain to me how Yao Ming seems smarter and more educated than the better half of the League. They also allow their players to go pro at very young ages but don't automatically thrust them into the starting line up. They then play against professional athletes every day in practice sessions and learn from professional coaches. If they want to ever play in a game they have to work extremely hard to better themselves. Nothing is handed to them because they can make pretty dunks.
He has a point regarding the lack of fundamentals in American players, but along the way, he's showing that he's another xenophobic, Afrocentric ex-NBA player a la Charles Barkley. He's implying that if American players can learn, or be taught by the NBA, the fundamentals, they will dominate the international players. And by American, I think he actually means African-American. You can argue that I'm reading too much into it, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if what Oscar Robertson truly wants is a league exclusively of African-Americans. Just read Slam, and you'll see that this is not such an unpopular idea for African-American NBA players and fans.
oh, and thanks rooms4rentsf. I wish I would have taken debate in highschool... or went to highschool for that matter.
They pay international players the same amount as stipulated by CBA. So there is nothing cheap about it. Get a clue.
Good article Quakes.... A lot of you guys are misunderstanding the theme of the article. Not sure where you guys got "African-America" bias from the article...it's not about that. In fact, he talking about the league as a whole. Oscar is basically raging against the MARKETING the NBA has become. He's saying that the NBA has *stopped the bleeding* by hiring international players so that the "lack of fundamentals" from the American players isn't as evident. The NBA is trying to HIDE its flaws by bringing in international players; those of which DO have fundamentals. He says it's "cheap labor" because the International players aren't the ones getting as much marketing as the "flashy" players are. LeBron and Melo are the ones that will. Even though they were doing nothing but "dunking" in the Rookie game. He's also saying that Yao is a good player, but just not yet fully developed. Not like Shaq is. So, he's not "bashing" Yao directly, but rather pointing out how the NBA is USING Yao for MARKETING REASONS, and then profiting off of it regardless of Shaq tenure. See, he's saying that this is just a trend that the NBA will follow. They will go for the money before they go for the quality teamwork. Again, MARKETING before QUALITY. Read the following... 'Professional basketball has been trivialized and dumbed down to the level of a highlight reel. Marketing and entertainment rule the day rather than putting the best product on the floor.' 'Defences can't guard anyone properly and offenses can't score,' he wrote. 'I pity coaches at any level who believe in and want to teach fundamentals when youngsters see players on TV with no fundamentals being paid huge sums of money.' In fact...I'd bet that Oscar would love it if the NBA would MARKET players like Yao, Gasol, Dirk, and AK-47 more...at least the quality of the league would improve because the fans would push them to the forefront more. And it would be THEY that got more playing time in the NBA, All-Star game, TV, etc....
I agree DavidS that people have misunderstood the article. But the Yao analogy is still stupid, you complain of lack of fundamentals in the NBA, and yet you think a highlight reel dunking center should make it over a more skilled player. He's all over the board. The NBA drafts foreign players because they have more skills yet he complains that the same NBA markets the dunkers. He sounds like a rambling old man.
He's complaing that they draft the foreign players with more skills, but yet they market the ones that DON'T have the skills (or at least not ready yet). The "dunkers" are not the ones that have the skills. The ones that have the "skills" can do more than just dunk; i.e. Gasol, Dirk, Parker, Yao, Peja...
What the heck is he saying? Is Oscar saying Shaq is more fundamentally sound than Yao and Yao is just a marketing machine without skills and that's why Shaq should start over Yao for all star? I don't remember too many big man with the fundamental skills that Yao displays night in and night out. To me, Yao is much more skilled than Shaq at this age. How is Shaq's ugly ass pushing out people dunk not highlight reel and good fundamental skill. Or Yao's skillful spin move to the hoop and finish with a left hand over Shaq that displays both power and finess just a highlight reel. Otherwise, this article is pretty good.
He's NOT saying that Yao is a "marking machine WITHOUT skills." He saying that the NBA is using Yao as a "marketing machine" regardless of Shaq past accomplishments (a by-product of the voting system). But of course, this just gets into the rules of the All-Star vote. Which is why he gave a suggestion for a voting change. Which is something that wont change soon. Let me put it to you this way. Who would I like to see starting in the All-Star game? Yao. Would I mind if Yao came off the bench? No. Either way, I get to see him. And sooner or later Yao will get better, and his playing time will increase. Yao is humble. He'll wait his turn if need be.
I don't agree with you DavidS. I think that you may be in denial and rationalizing an article that is xenophobic, and if not Afrocentric, then at the very least Americentric. From the comparison between foreign laborers taking away jobs of Americans, to the assertion that American players are athletically superior to foreign NBA players, to the claim that the NBA is only marketing foreign players for financial gains, and not because they are better players than American players. No matter what, his arguments are crap and don't hold water. They are fundamentally contradictory and filled with invalid generalizations. The bottom line is that foreign players made it in the NBA on pure merits, and not because of some conspiracy to sell NBA merchandise to foreigners. His comparison of international NBA players to foreign workers unfairly taking up American jobs is simply uninformed, misguided and xenophobic. The hard truth is that the level of international basketball is fast catching up to American basketball, and blaming the NBA for not teaching American players "fundamentals" is a lame excuse. Are foreign coaches really so much better than American coaches at teaching fundamentals? Remember when our "Dream Team" got our asses thoroughly whooped at the World Championships? I don't think that "fundamentals" were all that that "Dream Team" was lacking.
kryten128, read again... You don't have to convince me about International players skills and merits. But there's a difference between showing what "sells" and showing what's "skill." Again, he's talking about what is being MARKETED MORE. How can you deny this? Ask yourself this. Who is more marketed? LeBron or Gasol? Melo or Dirk? It's about the marketing and coverage. The International players ARE improving the quality of the league. And they know it. But they wont push them to the forefront for TV coverage. Not like LeBron. Do you see? That's right. They did. But who is the NBA marketing more? The skilled International players? Or the "dunk-happy" American players? In my opinion, the skilled players should be marketed more. But the NBA doesn't believe that. Because "skills" don't sell. They don't get "ooohs and ahhs" from the crowd. They don't get ESPN highlights. They don't sell tickets....It's sad... It's not a conspiracy. It's business. You don't have to sensationalize it. Yes, that's true. But he's not blaming them for not teaching the game to American players. He's blaming the league for setting a bad example/precedence by exacerbating the situation, i.e. rewarding young players by marketing them without them learning the fundamentals...yet on the other side "ignoring" the international players even when they do learn the fundamentals. See? It's about what "sells." And that's a problem. I mean, what kind of message is this telling young players in H.S.? That all they have to do is "dunk?" That's not good.
I don't have any problem with NBA using Yao as a marketing tool. The guy is legit and who wouldn't want to use him for marketing?? If Yao is all hype and not legit, then I can see them exploiting him just for marketing. Bottomline is, he's legit and the league is ripping the benefit from an unknown market in Asia. Tell them to market with Wang Zhi Zhi, nobody is buying it...!
