Orlando Sentinel: Magic want Francis, Mobley and Cato

I am not following your logic.

 

I think, in all likelihood, he meant that "unless" to be an "if."

 

Please remember your 3 W's. Willis, Wallace, Wingspan.

1. Cassell, Horry, Brown, Bryant for Barkley was dubious. Cassell, Horry, Brown, Bryant for Barkley, Willis was a slam-dunk. Put McGrady and Yao together and you have that magic (no pun intended) tipping point at which the FAs come in to fill the holes.

I'm sure CD, JVG et al are trying to line up a Willis or two before they offer 3 starters for a Barkley. Hell, this isn't even a Barkley, it's an already-developed Kobe. Bottom line, don't expect the Rockets to meet the Magic's demands till they've got the replacements lined up. So all you fretters can relax.

2. Please stop with the CW about how the Pistons showed teamwork is more important than stars. They traded a bunch of those teamwork types for a star. That's what gave them the edge that got them through the East.

3. You want a real lesson from the Pistons? Long-armed defense. Those guys got their fingertips on shots and dribbles the Lakers never had to worry about before. Now for the quiz. Whose reach is longer: (a) Steve Francis, (b) Cuttino Mobley, or (c) Tracy McGrady?

We all know Francis is the key to this deal, and Cato has either just played his peak season or can be replaced with not much loss of talent. So it comes down to Mobley's value. I'm loath to give him up. I think he proved this year that he fits on a JVG championship team. But if you offer me two scenarios -- one in which we lose Mobley to get McGrady, and another in which we lose McGrady to keep Mobley, I know I'd regret the latter more. Take the lesser regret. Make the deal.

 

When was the last time that the team who got the best player in a deal turned out getting the worst of it? If you're the one getting the best player, you always, always, always, do it unless you have a future hall of famer at the position already. I don't think we have a future hall of fame swingman as it stands do we?

 

CD was an assistant coach during the championship years. His first big aquisition as a GM was barkley. CD did not put the championship team together.

 

Whoa Big, inhale and then exhale slowly. What Easy is saying is not that hard to follow. If anything, you are the one who sounds like they don't watch basketball, just follow me here.

First, granted that playmakers do set up their teammates. Playmakers make everyone else around them better, but the main role of the point guard is to take that responsibility. The point guard has the role of setting up the offense and running it in an efficient manner. While this depends on the execution by team members it is the point who gets the offense in its "flow". What Easy is saying is that Francis, for the most part, failed as an efficient "point guard". This is mostly due to the fact that Stevie is not a traditional "point guard". He is a shooting guard in a point guard body (keep this in mind for part 2). Bottom line is that regardless of position, McGrady is a better playmaker now than Francis will ever be.

Secondly, there are no contradictions in this statement. Francis and McGrady are nothing alike. If anyone compares these two talents they are clearly not paying attention to the league. Rocket fans face an inherent problem with Yao Ming being the preverbial "center" of this team. While Yao is the focal point of the offense he clearly doesn't have the attitude to go along with that role. Yao hardly calls for the ball and his passiveness does not allow him to "dominate" games like everyone thinks he can (myself included). This is then aggitated when Steve takes too man shots or makes careless turnovers on attempted drives to the lane. Steve did make overtures this year to defer to Yao, but Yao never adopted the attitude of "Give Me The Damn Ball!". So clearly Yao does not want to, at least not yet, be the "focal point" of the offense. As Easy says, he doesn't mind being the second option...he's just not a leader, yet. So when we talk about Francis and McGrady as #1 options McGrady is the no brainer. While Francis can create his own shot he has an average jump shot at best, and is one of the worst finishers in the league (outside of dunking). McGrady on the other hand is one of the best finishers in the league, and his jump shot is way above average. Also, besides what you say (about his defense, which feeds into leadership) McGrady does the have attitude to be the leader of this team. In this situation, I think Yao's lack of attitude suits McGrady well. Rockets fans have put a lot of blame on Francis for not deferring to Yao enough, but people need to point some blame at Yao for not letting Francis know who is in charge.

Thirdly, McGrady is an amazing defensive player. Now before you start blasting his "effort" just remember that before Van Gundy came on board, Francis, Mobley, Cato, etc were all below average-average defenders. Why? Not because they did not have the talent but because of their work ethic and dedication. If there was ever a knock on Rudy T it is that while he was a "players coach" he was not a great disciplinarian. If McGrady were to come to Houston I would guarantee that Van Gundy would light a fire under him, and you would see the same effort from McGrady night in and night out that you now see from Francis, Mobley, and Cato. If you are afraid McGrady won't take to such coaching then he would never come to Houston, because he clearly knows what kind of coach Van Gundy is. If you ever doubted his defensive prowess just watch an Orlando-LA match up. McGrady is the one player (besides Prince and the Pistons) that I've seen totally shut down Kobe. You just don't do that with average defensive skills.

As far as the Orlando record goes, you are using one year as a gauge for T-Mac's ability. Remember that he took Orlando to the playoffs by himself a few years in a row, and that is saying alot. If you think Kobe would do better then look at it this way. Remove Shaq from the Lakers the past few years? Do they even make the playoffs, doubtful. Granted this is the West we are talking here, but this years Orlando team was close to that of a CBA team. Injuries and just plain bad players plagued them, and for a player of his talent that cannot be easy. By the way, a trade would not just be 3 for 1. The Rockets would at least get Juwan Howard in a deal along with someone else, and while it may be hard to swallow the deal I would do it. Howard brings more offense, consistently, than Taylor/Cato and is a decent defensive player. If it comes down to Francis/Mobley for McGrady then you do it in a heart beat.

Those are my 24 seconds, the shot clock just went off, peace.

 

If Orlando offered T-Mac/Howard for Francis/Cat/Cato, we would have to take it. Signing a PG and a backup C isn't hard to do, especially when enticing them with a Yao/T-Mac duo.

Also, if the above was the deal. The Rox would still have the mle and TE to use.

Fisher or Barry/Wilks
Jackson/Pike
T-Mac/Nachbar
Howard/MoT
Yao/FA

Only guard I would trade Francis for is T-Mac, I'm not too concerned with Cat/Cato, since they can be replaced quite easily. But if T-Mac/Howard for Francis/Cat/Cato is the deal, the Rox should take it.

 

I am just dumbfounded by some of the responses on this thread. First off, let's put to rest the notion that it's a 3 for 1 deal with Steve/Mobes/Cato for T-Mac. This doesn't work under the salary cap. The Magic will have to give back a couple more players in order to match salaries. Juwan Howard is the most likely candidate because:

1. The Magic will have too many pfs if they end up drafting Okafur.
2. And they probably wouldn't move Gooden because he's still young and cheap.

So the most likely deal is for:

Steve
Cat
Cato

for

T-Mac
Howard
Lue or Declerq

I fail to see how this is giving up too much. In fact this would clear up our pf problem. Howard is a better rebounder than Mo-T and a much better offensive player than Cato. He isn't Brand or Rasheed but come on, we don't have THAT much trade bait on the team.

Think of it like this: T-Mac is flat out a better player than Steve. Howard is flat out a better power forward than Cato. Cat is included in order to make up the difference.

No this isn't giving up too much. In fact this is a very fair trade. Too many people offer up dream scenarios like "Rasheed for Mo and the Trade Exception" or "Steve and Mo for T-Mac", so when a legitimate NBA trade scenario comes out they're just sore because we don't get to completely fleece the other team.

I mean, who is the deal breaker. Is it Cat? Why would he be, he'd end up on the bench anyway with T-Mac at the SG. Is it Cato? You have to be kidding me. Cato is a decent center in a centerless league, but he couldn't possibly be ranked higher than average at the power forward spot.

Guys like Cat and Cato aren't deal breakers. They're decent players but they're nothing special. You win with stars in this league. I know that Detroit won this year, but what about the previous 30 years.

This is a good deal, and I'd pull the trigger before Indiana or Phoenix beats us to it.

 

i dont understand why people wouldt pull the trigger on this either. Cato is garbage and overpaid, Tmac is way better than mobely, and steve can be replaced. All we need is a point guard who can shoot and distribute the ball. Howard would most likely be included so we would have our PF problem solved. Plus yao and tmac are around the same age.

 

got this from another board. ITs from espn insider.

Houston Rockets: There also has been talk throughout the league for weeks about a trade of Steve Francis and Bostjan Nachbar for T-Mac. Jeff Van Gundy wants a real point guard running the show and would prefer his No. 1 scoring option not also be the point guard. The Magic have a real need at the point, though it's tough to see how adding just Francis changes Orlando's fortunes next year.

 

Hold on people before we start throwing out stuff like Steve can just be replaced with anybody I think we better think about what had in the past. People forget so easily and take what they have for granted.

Look back over the last 10-15 years and name me one Rox pg that you could just replace Steve with and feel like the team is better. Name just one!

Why do think the Lake show are looking for an pg upgrade every year. Name me one realy good team in the last few years that didn't have a diffrence making point besides the Lakers.

some times we underestamate Steve's value. Just look at the diff. with him and without. We remained a fring play-off team when he played with little help and were a bottom dwelling lottorey team when he wasn't able to play that one year.

Having said this I would trade him for T mac or Kobe but not to many other players; his best years are ahead of him remeber several teams gave up on Billups and Kidd just to name a few pgs.

 

The Bulls, The Houston Rockets (94- 95 teams).

Im not a proponent of trading Steve, just naming the teams you asked for!

 

this is a pretty dumb argument. You can have an excellent SG=tmac and an average point guard. You just need a point guard who can defend and hit the open shot, nothing fancy.

 

I cannot believe you guys are trying you guys are so hooked on Cat and Cato that you may pass up a 25 year hall of famer.

I like Cat and I like Cato, but lets be real here...I'd trade Francis+Mobley for Mcgrady. Hes just that damn good.

Cato before Ming was lazy, the guy put in nil effort at all. I'll admit that his defense gotten better but his defense isn't stellar. Hes a solid back up center on the defensive end but thats about it. On the offensive end, it might else well be 4 on 5 with Cato on the floor. Cato is an offensive liability, he just doesn't have a nack for scoring except for the occasional alley oops he catches from Francis. I am sorry but if CD passes up Mcgrady because he doesn't want to part with Cato, who has butter fingers and an overpaid contract, you guys are crazy.

As much as I hate Francis gone, cause the dude has heart and he gets along pretty well Ming, I knew that the guy had to go. He won't be happy unless hes off his leash and I am sure Orlando will give him and his buddy Cuttino as much freedom as they want.

As for Cat, hes very under rated and under paid. However, when one sees what Mcgrady does to double teams and zone defenses, you'll forget about Cat and the former Franchise.


Look at it this way

Ming 23 years old
Mcgrady 25 years old

if those two stick togather, we'll be contenders in 1 or 2 years to come.

I know Mcgrady can be a head case but hes not as bad as Francis and Francis, Ming and Van Gundy managed to work something out.

from realgm.com

Houston trades: PG Steve Francis (16.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 6.2 apg in 40.4 minutes)
C Kelvin Cato (6.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 25.3 minutes)
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.4 minutes)
Houston receives: SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (17.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.5 minutes)
C Andrew DeClercq (3.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 17.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +9.7 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and -2.3 apg.

Orlando trades: SG Tracy McGrady (28.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.5 apg in 39.9 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (17.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.5 minutes)
C Andrew DeClercq (3.2 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 17.1 minutes)
Orlando receives: PG Steve Francis (16.6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 6.2 apg in 79 games)
C Kelvin Cato (6.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 69 games)
SG Cuttino Mobley (15.8 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 80 games)
Change in team outlook: -9.7 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and +2.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

its a win win situation for both teams,

Howard can back up Ming in the center position if need be and Declercq is decent off the bench.

As for marketing value,

If Kobe and Shaq were the Lake show

what would Mcgrady and Ming be? The Rocks will be the team to watch.

Free agents will want to come to Houston
TV ratings will soar because we have the new Shaq and Kobe

Francis+Mobley+Cato is a steal for Mcgracy+Howard or even Mcgrady and a filler.

 

I can't believe we're still debating this. Even if TM doesn't work out, the Rockets can always trade him.

 

Sam Cassell

 

There are reports Indiana is looking to mix things up to keep up with the Pistons.
Futher evidence of them supposedly open to talks was with trading Mcgrady talks.
Let's get real, if McGrady tells the front office that he wants out Orlando will not take the chance of him just walking after this upcoming season. So taking that into thought and what Orlando is demanding it's not realistic right now in what they are demanding from teams.
Indiana,Houston,Phoenix all will have more room to negotiate with Orlando if McGrady clearly wants out.
Saying all that how about us going for Artest/Harrington since they are supposedly available if the McGrady deal falls through and he wants stay in Orlando?

 

Tmac is a superstar.
can lead the league in scoring.
is young
potential hall of famer

if he is injury free, no brainer

I sure don't want to be thinking 10 years from now
when he has been one of the top players to play the game
that same old, " he was almost a Rocket"

get another player in the hall of fame in a Rocket uni
get another championship.

Take the risk (there's always risk)
Make the trade

 

Beware of what you wish for.....I like T-mac and is one of the only players I would trade Steve for but I just don't see how giving up 60% of our starting line-up is going to solve all our problems...I don't think JVG would approve this but CD and les would do it b/c it would pretty much guarantee sell-outs and make boat loads of $$$ (Ching ching)

 

Where can I get my Steve Orlando Jersey @? I love the ROckets and they come first but Orlando would instantly become my second favorite team. Peace.