1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Optimizing Harden and Westbrook

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by 713KLP, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. 713KLP

    713KLP Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    30
  2. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    13,774
    Likes Received:
    27,148
  3. Juxtaposed Jolt

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2010
    Messages:
    20,797
    Likes Received:
    16,587
    Pretty crazy that Harden and Westbrook are far and away the highest scoring duo, and Harden has been in a scoring slump since the calendar rolled to 2020.

    Granted, if Harden is on, Westbrook doesn't have to be, in which the numbers might normalize. But just imagine if Westbrook played this way and Harden played his usual "40 points / night" way. Dear lord.
     
  4. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    13,501
    Likes Received:
    5,423
    Which is one of the main reasons people view us as a darkhorse title contender. If/when both these guys are on in the playoffs, for multiple games, it's most likely over for most teams.

    Now the one thing they have similar to the English/Vandeghewe & Melo/Iverson teams is their lack of defensive intensity from their star players. That will be our hang up in the playoffs.
     
    D-rock and Juxtaposed Jolt like this.
  5. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Not if Morey adds more long athletic defensive disruptors to complement Beard and Brodie.

    Plus the lack of defense mantra is fake narrative. Harden may struggle on the perimeter (so do Russ & House) but he is the best post defender in the NBA as well as top 20 in steals and deflections.

    And Westbrook may not be able to stay in front of his man but he is a terror in the passing lanes and is much better rim protector than 6'6 House.
     
    DeBeards, hakeem94 and RudyTBag like this.
  6. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    13,501
    Likes Received:
    5,423
    Agreed. Which is why I worded it as 'lack of defensive intensity', rather than just the typical, "they don't play no defense" gang.

    We have a good amount of great guards that will matchup against Harden and Westbrook:

    Kawhi, Murray, Mitchell, CP3 :p, Luka, and most likely Dame... could be Ja.

    Those are some pretty heavy hitters on top of the other star teammates on their respective squads. This isn't even including Lebron or Davis as they're both forwards. That's a pretty daunting task for either of our guards through at least two 7-game series' to get to the WCF. At the least, we'll be exciting as hell to watch this year in the playoffs.
     
    DeBeards, hakeem94 and D-rock like this.
  7. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,575
    Likes Received:
    35,637
    Backup center is *Sefoloshawagon*

     
  8. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    21,569
    Likes Received:
    10,434
    If I'm reading this correctly, Hartenstein FTW.
     
    alethios and D-rock like this.
  9. harold bingo

    harold bingo Udoka Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,420
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    This is really interesting, I love stuff like this. Thanks for posting. According to this our small ball lineups without Tucker have been a total disaster all season, which isn't too surprising, but I didn't know it was this bad.
     
    Lawlruschang, DeBeards and D-rock like this.
  10. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Only problem is that neither center can score or rim protect very well.

    Some games they cant even rebound.
     
  11. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    21,123
    Thabo can certainly protect the rim. His rotations are picture perfect. High, highhhhhhh level defensive IQ. You don't need to block shots to protect the rim. Shane Battier didn't rebound much either, nor Chuck Hayes, but good positional defense and astute recognition of what is unfolding is always invaluable.

    It will not be easy to find a buyout player better than Thabo in this respect.
     
    Lawlruschang and hakeem94 like this.
  12. alethios

    alethios Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    7,974
    Likes Received:
    6,015
    And Chandler to a lesser degree. Seems having someone 6' 10" or above does help in the rebounding and defensive dept.
     
    rockbox and D-rock like this.
  13. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Thabo is smart and still very good positional defender.

    But he is old as Methuselah and cannot shoot worth a damn.

    Not advocating to be rid of him, unless clear upgrade available.

    However Tyson, Harty and Clemons should all be replaced. There are players available now that are better fits and playable if injury occurs.

    Neither of these 3 are fits and if forced to play them would be catastrophic.
     
  14. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    21,569
    Likes Received:
    10,434
    Hartentein is the only big with a net positive regardless of who he is on the court with.
     
    Lawlruschang, Swish4fives and D-rock like this.
  15. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    I bet playing him more minutes would make the Rockets so much better.

    The math lies.:rolleyes:
     
    DeBeards and hakeem94 like this.
  16. harold bingo

    harold bingo Udoka Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,420
    Likes Received:
    10,126
    I think the reason for this is because of how Mike treats him though. He only gets a chance if the situation/matchup is deemed to be in his favor, and even then, he's on a very short leash. So if he goes into the game and things are going well, he gets to stay in, but if he makes one minor mistake, or things don't look like they're going well for 2 minutes, he gets pulled. Any player treated like this is going to have a very favorable net rating. Essentially he's not allowed to play if his net rating is going to be bad, and no other player on the team has that "luxury" for lack of a better term.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  17. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    Capela was light years better as switch/perimeter defender and rim protector than Harty.

    So if Capela not a net positive on the floor, how in all the hells is Harty going to be better, even with more minutes?
     
    Lawlruschang likes this.
  18. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,696
    Likes Received:
    5,575
    this data tells me that we should be playing hartenstein when westbrook is off the floor.
     
    kjayp and Lawlruschang like this.
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    36,740
    Likes Received:
    13,131
    Wait... WHAT. That data looks SO good. This other data looks.. SO good. This looks good. That looks good. WOW, WOW, WOW. Great. Great. Great.

    Yeeeehaaaaaw.

    Sefalosha? ALL-STAR. Russ? HISTORIC. Harden? HACKED the game.

    Meanwhile...

    Records record: 34-20.

    Kinda... lulzy.

    Not what this thread was about. I know. But... c'mon.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now