ok now. so when some guy shoots at a rescue worker - it's society's fault? it seems like the violence is escalating and impeding evacuation attempts. there's a HUGE difference between stealing some bread and water and shooting rescue workers. hell there's a huge difference between stealing some jewelry and firing shots at some helicopter that is trying to evacuate people. somewhere along the line here - that distinction seems to have blurred. it is easy to justify the looting of food supplies. I do not think it is right to justify the shooting of resue workers in anyway.
way to tie-in politics with this. how does shooting at a rescue worker have anything to do with politics?
The discussion was about reasons why people react they way they do in different countries. Bigtexxx pointed out that Germany didn't have the poverty that New Orleans does and that's one of the reasons, also their educational system. I pointed out that their government is partly responsible for that and its different from the U.S. Next time follow the thread and you won't have to ask questions like that.
You know, at first I thought the "shoot 'em all" philosophy was ridiculous, but watching this unfold, I think anyone who fires on a rescue/aid person should be shot if necessary. (I'm not talkign about simple looters, but the violent ones) These people are costing lives - people are dying at a rapid pace at the Superdome and other locations and rescue workers can't get in. Martial law has been declared, and, I hate to say it, but it needs to be enforced. The military / national guard has to take a fire and be fired upon philsophy. At some point, you have to say you're going to prioritize the lives of people that want to be saved over those that are causing people to die - because both groups aren't going to survive.
Sorry, I meant to add if possible, use non-lethal bullets or some temporary measure to subdue, but you have to do whatever is necessary to stop these people.
Why do you keep asking me that? I didn't say anything about a rescue worker getting shot. What are you trying to prove? I already showed how the discussion evolved. No one said anything about a rescue worker getting shot. Bigtexxx wasn't responding to that, neither RR, neither me. Threads evolve into different discussions.
Tough talk for someone who quotes Jesus in every other post he has made in this thread. Stop waving that "save my family" strawman around. No one in this thread is against people taking what they need out of necessity. What I don't agree with is people taking stuff they don't need and shooting at rescue workers. I know you do not condone these actions, but you are asking us to understand where these folks are coming from. But given that a large number of people in similar circumstances are NOT acting like barbarians, I really don't see why the looters who are costing human lives deserve our understanding. If you're a teenager and you decide to take a few items from Walmart that are not strictly "necessities"--like a few beers and a pack of smokes--ok, maybe I can see your point. Many teenagers shoplift and this is pretty tempting given that no one is there to punish you. But adults running around stealing, robbing, and shooting? I'm sorry, none of those people are decent people to begin with.
not looking too good this is from "The Interdictor" blog that rockHEAD posted back in the hangout thread
it's hard not to bring race into this issue when practically all the people performing these henious acts are black.... unfortunate as that may be.
I have to wonder if the people down there were affluent non-minorities, would our government still be so slow to respond with their rescue efforts?
pgabriel, I think the discussion about Germany distracts maybe a bit from the topic of this thread (I know you were not the first person to bring Germany into this). Therefore, I do not want to comment too much. But I think one point you mention deserves to be repeated - it happened long ago before most Germans' lives. And I have reason to believe that bigtexxx reaction is motivated by having met many Germans in person and having been to Germany. I am thankful for his reaction because I don't think it is fair to us (the younger generation) to always bring up the Nazis when it comes to talking about Germany. Back to the topic of Katrina: Germany says ready to help U.S. with Katrina 01 Sep 2005 12:10:09 GMT Source: Reuters BERLIN, Sept 1 (Reuters) - German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said on Thursday Germany was ready to help the United States with the havoc caused by Hurricane Katrina, offering water treatment facilities and mobile shelters. "The terrible pictures are gradually showing us the extent of the devastation caused by the hurricane," Schroeder said at a book presentation in Berlin. He said he had directed government ministries to investigate what help Germany could offer to the United States if requested. "The citizens of the United States should know that in such a situation, Germany is firmly at their side and will do everything it can to organise whatever help we can provide as far as it is desired," he said. "I'm thinking here of water treatment plants or mobile accommodation, the kinds of things that are needed in such a devastating situation." German television has carried extensive coverage of the disaster on the U.S. Gulf Coast, with news channels carrying round the clock pictures of people wading through flooded streets or waiting to be rescued from rooftops. Schroeder's opposition to the U.S-led war in Iraq caused a deep rift in relations between Berlin and Washington but both sides now say any differences have been patched up. "Of course we know that the United States of America has enormous resources of its own, but we want at least to be ready to be able to provide help in this or that area where we can -- and we can do a lot," he added. Schroeder, facing an uphill battle to win an election on Sept. 18, faced a major flood disaster in the run-up to the last election in 2002, when his assured response to the crisis helped snatch an unexpected victory. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L01235834.htm
Wow. I have to wonder if "affluent non minorities" would be shooting at the rescuers. I saw a LOT of non affluent minorities being rescued in the past few days--prior to the shootings. Now you've got me thinking. Maybe.........just maybe......if your mentality reflects that of the mob responsible for all of the shooting, looting, and now I'm hearing raping.......perhaps you're right. Maybe the government knows EXACTLY what they're doing.
so you know who shot at the rescuers that's about the most offensive thing in this thread and that's saying something.
You're right, RR probably shouldn't have brought Nazi Germany in this argument but that's what happens when people start commenting on what group of people would do what.
Send the German army. They'll probably arrive sooner than the American troops. Seriously, the wait for the Army to arrive and take over is maddening. But, I think people might be jumping to conclusions about the inactivity of the administration. I think they might have been caught a little flat-footed when the levees broke, and I'll give them hell for that when this nightmare is over, but I don't see any reason to think the administration is sitting on its hands now. Mobilizing 20,000+ troops to cope with an unexpected civil unrest problem in a hard to reach place sounds like a big logistical challenge. It's not unrealistic to think it might take a couple of days, even understanding that that wait is so maddening for everyone, and costly in human life.
if the education is only available at schools with decrepit infrastructure and lack of modern technology do you expect education to be highly valued?
So pgabriel.......lets assume your sarcasm detector is set to "MORON" and you actually believe that I'm wondering if the government is purposely not stepping up the pace to rescue these people because they are non affluent minorities. How is vwiggin's post less offensive when his "wondering" of the exact same damn thing preceded my post?
If boat people who don't even speak english can succeed using the same educational system, then it's definitely the culture. I have yet to see Korean, Vietnamese or Indian looter.
You're right, vwiggin brought race and economic class into the argument so it was wrong for me to attack you for it. I apologize for that, and I will go one step further, I think its fair to make some assumptions about the shooters. I still find the second part of your statement offensive, sarcasm or not. Sorry, that's just how I feel.
