1. What does them being big men have to do with it? Ok...are you saying, were he not a free agent, that Portalnd wouldn't trade Zach for Kobe? Or for Lebron? My point was that your argument was founded on a false construct; that their decision to build around Randolph would preclude them moving him if the deal were in their favour. 3. So your decision is based on marketing? Even were that the case, it still wouldn't mean that our offer is superior to theirs; Nene is a step up from either Howard or, and it pains me to say this, Gooden. You can flip one of those for more; when your talent base is as low as the Magic, you're not gonna take a Cato over a Nene because you need a 5 more. 4. Mortgage their future!?!? McGrady would be the future. As for the fast break, T_Mac more than makes up for the absence of Jefferson. I think you're just looking at what they'd lose, and forgetting that they're adding one of the top 5 players in the league, to go with Kidd, whatever they get for Jefferson, etc. Besides, K-Mart wants the big bucks. 5. The whole thing is based on the speculation, and you refuted the fact that their offer is better based on speculation, which doesn't affect value. Oh, and I'd rather have McGrady than Kobe, even without the legal troubles. 6. Doesn't alter the fact that it's a better offer than ours, which was the premis of this entire discussion. 7. BIG pillars of their team or not, the original point you made is invalidated by our own experience. You keep shifting your arguments. ( Besides, I don;t know that Butler is that BIG of a foundation for their team.)
Suns deal is way better. Joe Johnson may be better than Francis right now. Throw in a top 5 pick, and it's a no-brainer. Orl could then send their 2 lotto picks to some team for a guy almost as good as T-Mac.
i'm sorry...am i being targeted or something? look, my intention for posting was to criticize a writer in ORLANDO for his trade proposals. what's the harm in that? i simply put out reasons why i think his proposals are crap. i didn't ask for you to agree or disagree with it. it's just my opinion that if this writer thinks the GMs in this league are THAT stupid, then the whole league would have gone under long ago. sorry, Macbeth, that my opinions do not squarely match up with yours. and i'm sorry that i tried to break things down in an analytical manner rather than spewing out 'mobly/nachbar/pike for mcgrady' bs that you're so accustomed to.
RockSolid, I didn't say SF was a superstar... read my message over again. And while your at it spell check it to... Perhaps then you will get what i'm saying... thanks. btw, are you a lakers fan or kings fan? or just a francis hater?
1) Portland (Randolph, Ratliff & 2004 Lotter Pick) Randolph isn't going anywhere. He's going to be Portland's main building block. 2) Lakers (Kobe) Good for the Magic, but can't imagine Kobe signing in Orlando. 3) Denver (Nene & Miller) Nice complementary players, but Orlando would want more. 4) NJ (Martin, + 2 Draft Picks) The move wouldn't really help either team. 5) Memphis (Posey, Gasol, Outlaw) If Orlando can be suckered into this one, they should go for it. 6) Sacramento (Peja, Jackson, Plus More) Peja isn't going anywhere. 7) Miami (Odom & Butler) Not an unrealistic offer. It would help both teams. Hard to imagine Miami moving Odom after the great comeback he's had, though. But, then again, his value has never been higher either. 8) Phoenix (Joe Johnson, Maciej Lampe, Suns' 2004 lottery pick, 2 future 1st-round picks) I'm a big Joe Johnson fan (and this trade seems most NBA-esque), but I'm not sure how Orlando fans would be sold on it. 9) Dallas (Nash, Howard, Delk) If Dallas can sucker Orlando into it, they should go for it. 11) Indiana (Harrington, Pollard, Tinsley) Harrington may be a great player one day, but he's gotten by on "potential" for a while now. Can't imagine Orlando passing on this deal. (my views completely ignored the financial ramifications of the deals; it's more fun that way)
Would Les bite on the Hill/McGrady deal if it were offered? At first I thought no, but the conventional wisdom is that he would spend the money for a franchise player. McGrady certainly is that, and a Hill/McGrady trade wouldn't even put us in LT land (I think). But I guess Hill's contract is more of a cap flexibility problem than a LT problem. I'd also consider a Francis for Hill/#1 trade if it got us Okafor.
If the Magic win the lottery then they will draft Okafor and then tmac will probably stay. If they get okafor then all the tmac trade talk will stop. For Tmac I would send anybody the magic wanted, except for JJ and Yao, and maybe 2 first rounders if the magic wanted. The draft is becoming a crap shoot these days with all the teen euros and high schoolers coming in. More and more teams are finding good role players and contributers with minimum contracts and undrafated rookies. Marquis Daniels, Udonis Haslem, Hoiberg, Hassel, Cardinal and the list goes on.
The trade talk will stop only when TMac signs an extension with the Magic. I'm not as convinced as you that the Magic getting a high enough pick to land Okafor will sway TMac to do that. We'll see, I guess.
This trade works capwise w/o using any of the TE. Francis + Taylor = Hill + Howard + Reece Gaines + pick (Okafor). Let's say the Rockets pay Hill and keep him on the IL for 2004-05 with Hill agreeing to not taking his Player Option for 2005-06 and coming off of the cap. The Rockets have $56.6m committed for 2005-06. Subtracting SF3 and Taylor drops them to $34.9m add back Howard @ $5m and Okafor @ $4m and Gaines @ ~$1.5m and you really don't have cap space to speak of. IMO, this deal would have to be about Okafor's potential not cap space. Basically, they'd be paying Hill's $14+m for one year to get at Okafor, Howard and Gaines. Two are rookie scale and Howard is MLE $. If you could use the MLE to get Barry, here's your 2004-05 Rockets: 1) Barry / Gaines 2) Mobley / Pike / AGriffin 3) JJ / Nachbar 4) Okafor / Howard / Spoon / Padgett (if re-signed) 5) Yao / Cato You'd still have the TE to inprove this roster.
If Marion/Johnson package is so more superior Francis/Mobley package, why did Suns win 20+ games this game while we are in playoff? keep in mind that, statisticaly, Amare (21-9) had a better year than Yao (17-9). I would not touch Hill's contract. If Orlando want to get rid of T-Mac/Hill together, they will not be able to fetch anything significant. Just remember how much Suns got back when trading Marbury AND Hardaway and we sent Jazz a No.1 pick for taking Rice's one-year contract. At least Hardaway can play some time while Hill will not be able to play any. Hill's contract has three more years of 50M left. Orlando has to give someone top pick this draft to get rid of him IMHO. How about this deal: Our TE+filler for HIll/their pick?
Actually I don't agree . . . Francis . . bring STAR POWER Mobely bring s level of Talent Cato bring a LEGIT Big Man [in the east] This would fill THREE SPOTS with Starters Along with Gooden and Howard Is the team better with that trade from a ORLANDO stand part the loose in McGrady but gain in two other spots Rocket River I'd rather have 3 guns with 6 bullets. . . than one gun with 10 bullets
I had just read the highlighted part originally, but now going back I see that the whole thing is proposals for McGrady. That thread title is kind of misleading, as if SF for T-mac were some deal that league execs all thought was the one that makes the most sense.
