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Open Court: 50 Greatest & Beyond

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by dream2franchise, Oct 13, 2014.

  1. dream2franchise

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    A conversation about the original top 50 players, who was left off and who would be included now of the current batch of players.

    Shaq, C-Webb, Chauncey Billups, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, Isaiah Thomas and Kenny Smith make their point and vote on their picks.

    TLDR version, added to the list were:

    Dominique Wilkins
    Bob McAdoo
    Tim Duncan
    Kobe Bryant
    Lebron James
    Allen Iverson
    Kevin Garnett
    Dirk Nowitzki
    Kevin Durant
    Dwyane Wade

    Other points of note:

    - Isaiah Thomas places championships above all else. It was always his first point of debate.

    - Steve Nash received 'sympathy' MVP's at Shaq's expense. According to...Shaq.

    - Shaq seemed to be insinuating that Penny Hardaway may have been a better player than Wade but I could just be misinterpreting things.

    - Webber wasn't sure if Bill Walton deserved his place if only because of his career being limited to injuries.

    - Shaq also feels that Ray Allen is a better player than Reggie Miller was.

    - A few in the discussion would have put D.Wilkins on the list ahead of Scottie Pippen

    - Shaq felt he was added to the original list prematurely but acknowledged and agreed with the point made by Miller that while it was early, it was also the right call.

    - Shaq seem surprised that T-Mac got no consideration whilst there was also debate about who deserved the tenth spot between KD and D-Wade. Both ended up being included at the expense of Chris Webber who was on their list already. Pretty interesting viewing and a good way to kill 20 minutes or so.

    Link here. Would embed if I could.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOEimrfJuaY
     
  2. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    Nash, melo and cp3 should all be in over iverson.
     
    #2 larsv8, Oct 13, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
  3. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    One player took his team to the NBA Finals; the other two haven't even made one.

    One player has been voted MVP; the other two haven't even gotten one between them.

    One player has led the league in scoring 4 different times; one has just done it once.

    Melo and Paul are HOF players but Iverson was just on another level for a player of his size.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. dandorotik

    dandorotik Member

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    His low shooting percentage notwithstanding, he was the best little man in taking over games, I mean he took OVER games and led a suspect team to the NBA Finals. Think about it, their starting lineup was George Lynch, Tyrone Hill, Deke and Eric Snow. Yeah, THAT team went to the Finals. That should put Iverson in the HOF alone.
     
  5. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    That and the fact they won a game against the most dominant team of this generation.
     
  6. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Steve Nash has to be on the next 10, imo.
    I understand the "overrated MVP" thoughts, and certainly agree with them... but I also think in retrospect it's clear that the system was Nash, not really D'Antoni. Because the small ball system doesn't seem to work quite as well without Nash, it seems.

    Offensively, Nash was such a complete player. Scored with EXTREME efficiency. The guy has a TS% of over 60% for 12 seasons. 12 seasons. Perhaps without extreme volume, but it isn't like he wasn't shooting. Add in the assists... the truly dominant, unique and game changing eyesight... basically, offensively, there haven't been many better PGs.

    His defense is, noted, not very good.

    At the end of the day... I think it comes down to the MVPs. He wasn't JUST getting sympathy votes for being a short white dude. Clearly there was some of that... but he also was they key driver of a system that in ways certainly did revolutionize the game for its period. The NBA from the late 90's through early 00's was in many ways unwatchable. What with the AI infatuation. Nash helped push in what we have today, which is MUCH more watchable basketball. Entertaining basketball. And he won those 2 MVPs, in my opinion, on the back of that.

    That puts him in the next 10 to me.... EXCEPT I have no idea who you take off!
     
  7. baubo

    baubo Member

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    During Iverson's prime with the Sixers, they've mostly been a bottom 10 offense and top 5 defense. Their offense was centered around Iverson. Their defense was centered around Mutumbo. For all of us who have watched an old, over the hill Mutumbo exert his will on defense even near retirement age, I dont' think it's a stretch to say Mutumbo had nearly as big an impact on those teams as Iverson.

    Yet he has always been treated like and afterthought on that team.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jacinto

    Jacinto Member

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    Before i continue watching this is Clyde Drexler name mentioned at all? Better not be unless its respect.
     
  9. tinman

    tinman Member
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  10. JazzLakerHater

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    Lol at Shaq. First of all he's just being bitter about the whole Steve Nash MVP thing. And second of all, does he really believe that Penny Hardaway was better than D. Wade? D Wade (and the refs) are the only reason why Shaq has that fourth ring.
     
  11. NL Rocket

    NL Rocket Member

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    Shaq needs to be taken off the air, rather sooner than later. The guy adds zero, it's always about him and his ego and if he doesn't like something: STOP IT! with the little handgesture, he's like a freaking child. Time to bring back Steve Smith and Grant Hill.
     
  12. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    It what universe would anyone pick Steve Nash over Shaq? Also, Penny was sick. He was the second coming of Magic before the injury.
     
  13. AusFan

    AusFan Member

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    Obligatory Chandler Parsons is offended post.
     
  14. sealclubber1016

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    Count me on the list of people who believe Iverson to be grossly overrated. He was a chucker who led a defense first team through an abysmal conference one year, and for some reason that gave him the rep of being a winner.

    If those Sixers teams had been out west they would have usually missed the playoffs and at best would have been first round fodder.

    I would easily put Webber, Nash, CP3, Kidd, Payton, and Paul Pierce ahead of him as players.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Nothng's more overrated than tossing out the "IV was an overrated chucker!" call. No longer en vogue.
     
  16. baubo

    baubo Member

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    Huh? Isn't the whole overrated chucker thing as a result of modern day analytics hindsight which found his TS% of basically ~50% to be absolutely atrocious by any measure of offensive success by today's standard? I know I never thought of Iverson as a chucker back when he played in Philly. Now looking back it felt like the overall defense carried those teams more than he did.
     
  17. Shakee

    Shakee Member

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    People change the criteria based on who they want in. They dismissed GP based on rings, then someone mentioned that he has a ring. They ignored it. Same with Kidd.
     
  18. Shakee

    Shakee Member

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    Yeah they were "coat tail" championships? So rings only count when you are the alpha dog of the championship team?:rolleyes:
     
  19. bongman

    bongman Member

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    If you are adding to the top 50, shouldn't there be a list of whom to remove or which player they will be replacing in the current list?
     
  20. Patterned919

    Patterned919 Member

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    I watched that a few days ago and was surprised at how resistant they were to putting Wade on the list. I thought Wade being on that list went without saying.
     

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