<B>Why does the Ethiopian kid want to get rid of all MEs in the US? Use your brain. </B> Probably the same reason you appear to be so gung-ho about removing people unlike you without evidence, proof, or substantion. Since some Middle Easterners are terrorists, all of them must be, right? <B>McCarthyism, huh?</B> Yes. Your response is exactly what McCarthyism was. No evidence, no proof, no substantiation. Just an allegation by one person -- believe it's true because its possible and semi-reasonable. Don't worry about checking the accuracy, just ruin these people's lives based simply on the allegation (by deporting them).
The big picture here is how will 9/11 affect civil liberties in this country. The fact is, these jackasses used the very freedoms and opportunities we have here to kill 6,000 of us. They learned to fly here...they lived comfortably here...they moved about with ease here. I'll tell you this...if you don't think the "authorities" are watching closely these jackasses (that's the second time i've used that word in this post -- YES!!) that made these statements at SDSU, you're crazy. Once again...I'm very concerned that there seem to be such a large number of people around the world (and in our own borders as well, it seems) that take delight in the destruction of 9/11.
I have to agree with you on this. As I have read this thread that is what keeps poping into my mind. I wonder if RichRocket is on the right or the left . thats what has really bugged me about the media also, its like they are fanning the flames of paranoia. Lets wait until we have all the facts not one persons account. In America you are innocent until proven guilty not the other way around
<b>shanna</b>: fully a third or so of the original 19 hijacking terrorists were "sleepers," i.e. they had been here in the US for almost 2 years, living in our culture, enjoying our freedoms and protections... yet when the word came they slaughtered us without hesitation. Do you really think that all I'm talking about is removing people "unlike me?" If that were so you'd be gone, too! If you want to close an eye to reality, go ahead but as I said before I won't allow your viewpoint take other innocents or my loved ones with you. McCarthyism was about blacklisting. "RichRocketism" is about preventing murder by sleeper enemies among us. Do you think those things are different? Visiting students from the Middle East who have demonstrated an "enjoyment" of the fatalities of 9/11 are not innocent (you mean legal, I only mean behavior) and don't deserve the use and protection of our free society because they may use it to kill again or influence others to do so. Free speech, my ass. I'm not afraid to make a decision and deport these kids and ruffle a few foreign feathers for their boorish or suspicious behavior. You can be kind, naive and forgiving unto your grave if you want.
Where is the proof of this? After reading the article, it seems it's one side vs. the other at this point. "I say RichRocket is a terrorist I overheard saying really nasty things about the 9/11 attacks against the US. Let's jail him." "But Dr of Dunk, it's your word against his, and he says he never said those things." "Doesn't matter. I think he is... jail him." "Ok, you're right. Besides, I'll feel better knowing somebody I think could be a terrorist is behind bars. After all, it's one less person to worry about."
Something tells me that if you met him, you'd really feel that way. That's exactly what McCarthy thought too. In the name of saving innocent American victims, he thought it'd be a great idea to get rid (in his way) of anybody who was even remotely suspected of being a commie. From what I'm reading from you, you'd do the same.
I agree with all the posters that if the Saudi students really said such things about the events of Sept. 11, then we'll know the truth soon enough. They'll be watched very carefully by law enforcement (local and national) and if they're involved in anti-American activities, they'll be deported. But if they're innocent, then I feel really bad for the scrutiny that they're going to be put through
McCarthyism was more of an philosophical/political battlefield-- world communism was the eventual goal, but there was no immediate threat. This is crime or war. People are already dead. <b>RM95</b>: I'm sure shanna would say the same about me!
McCarthyism was a fraud. That is all that matters there. It was internal US political maneuvering. It really had nothing to do with the evil commies.
Okay lets compare what McCarthyism would do and what some are doing right now. A person see's someone they feel are suspicious. They may be pink. . . when listening in on a conversation they hear the word russia, communism, and then a little later great. So the person puts the three together. OHHHH MYYY GOD, I think they are a communist. the "communist" is then taken to trial. the person who over heard them say communism russia and great, says they are commies burn them burn em all. The judge flips out is calling them traitors on the bench. the prosecutor is doing the same. they are given the sentace of death. It is put through and these people die. I know that is way far fetched. . . or is it? sk the Rosenbergs how they are doing now a days. . . oh wait they are dead. Well they were given the death sentace for "consipiracy to commite espionage" there was not any proof to back this up other than one persons so called testimony, actually he was giving out names of people who were "pink" so they would go easy on him. I said Julius Rosenberg. Of course his wife was convicted becasue she is his wife and has to be a commie too. Lets fast forward it to right now. All the evidence they have is one students word against 4 others. sounds like there is not sufficent evidence to "deport" anyone. It also sounds a lot like the begining of the "red scare" or McCarthyism. thats why I think we all should take a wait and see attitude about this. Not come out with guns blazing flattening anyone who dose not see it "the right way".
The Rosenbergs were guilty, IVFL. http://www.crimelibrary.com/rosen/rosenepil.htm It now seems clear that Julius Rosenberg was engaged in espionage. The CIA, in 1995, released "the Venona Cables," decoded Soviet documents that demonstrate Rosenberg's espionage activities. The Khrushchev memoirs mention Rosenberg's spying for Russia. Released KGB files provide further evidence. Finally, Rosenberg's Soviet contact, Alexander Feklisov, one of Klaus Fuchs' Soviet contacts, admitted that he had met with Julius Rosenberg as early as 1943, when, as with all American Communists recruited for espionage, Julius left the Party. They were executed because they helped the Soviets get the H-bomb. Incidentally, who are all of these other people who were executed because of McCarthyism you're talking about? Granted, thousands of people were harassed and some careers were destroyed, but who was executed? Anyway, I don't see McCarthyism happening now. That was politically motivated; a few congressmen used the nation's fear to build their careers, not to meet a real threat. That was about publicity, this is not. Personally, If I were in charge (and I'm not) I would do background checks on males of middle eastern descent who are from 18 to 45 and who have resided here for under 10 years. These checks would be done quietly and with as little disruption as possible (hopefully none), and everyone who passed - which I'm sure 99.999% of them would - could just forget it ever happened and go on with their lives. Most of them would never even know that the background check had taken place. You'd get a few sleepers, though, and unfortunately that is the only way to get them. If they've done nothing wrong, then they've got nothing to worry about. I would also not issue any more student visas to anyone who comes from a nation that's on the State Dept's list of terrorist sponsors. That's just common sense. And I would certainly not issue any visas to any middle eastern men who wanted flight training... Let them get training somewhere else. That story about the 14 Syrians who were admitted at DFW airport for flight training on student visas just made my blood boil. It seems like the authorities still haven't learned their lessen.
I also liked this part "The execution of the Rosenbergs did not end the Rosenberg Case. For years many argued for their innocence, while others brought forth evidence of their guilt. At the least, it was justifiably argued that their ultimate penalty did not fit the crime. . . . . As in all good dramas, the Rosenberg Case abounds with ironies. Spies convicted of much more serious acts of espionage, both during and since 1950, have received less severe sentences than the Rosenbergs. The death penalty has not been imposed for spying since 1953. A second irony is that the Rosenberg espionage ring was, in a sense, at the periphery of spying. The information about the atom bomb passed to the Soviets by Alan Nunn May and Klaus Fuchs was much more significant to the development of the Russian bomb, but they had the good fortune to be tried by the British. Others have argued that it is not the significance of the information that the Rosenbergs passed, but the act itself. The final irony is that the Rosenbergs chose to become martyrs to a cause that forty years later had, for all intents and purposes, disappeared." I would sugest you read the whole story. . . then draw your own conclussions. they did not help the soviets get the H-bomb that was done years before by Fauchs. do you know who Feklisov is? its actually Ethel rosenbergs brother, he was only a minor spy and was accusing Julius Rosenberg when he wanted a lesser sentance. In essance Fauchs and Feklisov were the real spys. they served a total of 12 years combined. the Rosenbergs were merley aquainted with them and were put to death. Tell me that is justice and I will laugh in your face. I never said their were thousands that were killed by McCarthyism. However there were thousands of lives ruined because of it. 2100 people were fired from the state department. 12,000 were forced to resign, with a "retirement package" 600 teachers were fired because someone accused them of being commie. 500 state and loca officals lost thier jobs for the same reasons. and over 150 college proffesors were fired, because they were suspected of being communist. Or at one time had been a member of the communist party. Numerous other people lost thier job becasue they would not say wether they were a commie or not. I bet its in the 10,000. McCarthyism was a bad thing done by the entire country, because of a fear of an outside agressor. Now if that is just a few politicians trying to gain a little publicity, It scares me to think what a lot of polotitions could do. Now fast forward it to today. thier are reports of slurs being aimed toward people of midleast decent. I know of one person in our area that lost their job, "becasue they had become "disagreable" But it was really becase they were from Saudi Arabia. The red scare started out small and grew. I just hope the same does not happen again here. Ohh and just for fun, Ronald Regan was a memeber of the communist party in the late 20's
