One of the sickest stat line I've ever seen --- 6x5

Okay, I give up. I'm missing something. The guy is in the top 20 in one category and he's God. He doesn't even crack the top 75 in scoring and has less rebounds per game than Zaza Pachulia, but he somehow dominates the NBA? Well, at least his team is real good though.

Look, he's a great complementary player who can do many things fairly well. But I can't make the guy out to be something that he's never been. And I'll stop talking nosenses now.

 

I'm fine saying that Kirilenko is a good player who "drastically" improves his team. I'm just saying that you could have plugged a dozen other guys into that team and the team would have turned around just as fast. You put Marcus Camby in Kirilenko's place and the Jazz would still have had a quick turnaround. Why don't we talk about Camby?

Oh, and, by the way, I'll take Duncan, LeBron, KG, etc. ANY DAY over Kirilenko.

 

You never insult people and you're going to insult someone for this? You're putting AK definitively in the same category as Duncan, Lebron, T-Mac, etc.. THAT is ridiculous.

You put some role players around AK. I'll build a team around any of the other 3... we'll see who does what. The NBA isn't a fantasy draft..


What slcrocket is saying is..well let's take another example. Take away Shareef from some Grizzlies teams, and they probably win about 10 games. Add him, and they might win 30. Do we automagically put him in the same category as TD, Lebron, TMac?

You are right on one thing...anyone who has seen recent Utah teams knows what AK has proven. That he's good. And would start for any team. And probably makes the All Star team as a reserve if healthy SOME years. Though he's definitely behind Duncan, Dirk, TMac, Brand, KG, Amare.. that's 6 Western forwards.

You know, I'd say he's right about on the same level as Marion. A much better all around player and a better shot blocker, but lacking (in comparison to Marion) in offensive diversity, ability to score, and a slightly worse rebounder (only cause Marion is so good at it). And a worse shooter.

 

You must have pretty low expectations if that is one of the "sickest" stat lines ever...

 

I don't think anyone here is saying AK47 is the best in the league or even top 5, so why do you think that last statement is neccesary? Saying you'd take Camby ANY DAY over AK might be what you're going for - especially since you'd be teased a bit for that, too.

AK47 may not be a top ten guy in the league, but he's one of the most versatile all-around talents of the past couple of decades. Extemely few guys affect both ends of the court (with skill, not sheer size like Shaq) as well as he does.

The best way to appreciate this guy isn't to marvel at his near quadruple doubles (which he put up regularly before his injury last Nov), it's to simply watch him play. He's a frightening opponent in that he simply comes out of nowhere like spiderman to swat a shot from behind (anyone remember when he absolutely terrorized Yao a couple years ago to the point that Yao was looking for him before any shot?), steal the ball from the blindside, fly in for an offensive board, etc. Playing against him seems like it would be an NBA version of a horror movie.

You think he's overrated, go ahead. Just let me know how many times you see someone produce 9 assists, 8 boards, 6 steals, and 7 blocks in a single game. He may not be a LeBron, but you put him next to a LeBron and you've got yourself a Scottie Pippen and a championship team.

Evan

 

In fact, I think the other 19 guys and 74 guys you mentioned or not, most of them were drastically overrated. When you put most of those guys in that team, they wouldn't have such an impact. You know why? This is NBA, if you are given free pass to be the offensive focus and jack up shots whenever you want to, 20 points isn't too difficult. But you need to have super talent, skills, and work ethic to have impact both offensively and defensively. Offensively, he's not on par with the TMacs or LeBrons, hey, if he is a 20 points guy, he would be the BEST player in the league. We are not arguing about that, are we? I am sure in that 20 and 75 list, guys like Carter, Arenas, RJ etc etc are ahead of him. But I will take AK over them any given day. With all those posts you put out to "back up" your statement, all the examples you can give was TD, KG, LBJ and TMac? AK doesn't get half of attention like those guys, but his value way exceeds half of the values from those guys, and you are saying he's drastically overrated? Then everyone is. You are making fun of his lack of points, therefore bash him being a not so good player? I guess Ben Wallace is also scrub to you as well.

When you put Marcus Camby in his place and Jazz would have a quick turnaround? I don't know what to say to you. Maybe you should watch more than 10 games from Camby. He's been having a great season, SO Far, before his injury. Now, that's called "drastically overrated".

 

emjohn and real egal...i suggest you read the thread in full before bashing someone.

slcrocket referenced TD/Lebron/TMac because after he first mentioned their names, the response was:

"In terms of NBA, I would put AK right behind the guys you mentioned."



I think he, I, and both of you probably, disagree with that statement. Which is why the responses are geared towards saying that AK is not on par (nor "right behind") those 3 guys. As I said before, I believe he's on the level of Shawn Marion, and just outside the All Star forwards in the West usually

 

Would anybody honestly want Artest on their team over Kirlenko?

 

Closest I came to "bashing" slcrocket was saying he'd be teased for considering Camby better than AK47. I'll stand by that. And if you say you'd put someone behind elite guys like Duncan, etc, than you're saying you'd take Duncan and friends over AK47. So there's no point to his saying he'd take Duncan ANY DAY over Kirilenko. Everyone would.

The tough thing with ranking someone like AK is that he's not a 20 ppg which is the unfortunate marker that 90% of sports fans use to compare players. Looking back to 03-04 when he was healthy and the lead guy on a squad featuring Ostertag, Harpring, Bell, and Arroyo, Kirilenko lead the squad to a 42-40 record while averaging a team high of only 16.5 PPG. Switch him out for a Michael Redd, Mike Bibby, Rip Hamilton, Jason Richardson, Manu Ginobili, Gilbert Arenas, or Elton Brand, and I highly doubt the Jazz improves (matches?) those 42 wins. Keep in mind Brand "led" his team with arguably more talent to 28 wins.

So is Ak a first-tier franchise player that you build around? Obviously not. But is he overrated or underrated when speaking in general? I say he's underrated. He's a game changer, and has more impact on W/L than at least half the guys above him in the scoring stats.

Evan

 

This is the worst post i've ever read on this board.

 

Guys in the top 50 scoring I would not trade for Kirilenko:
Iverson
Bryant
James
Wade
Dirk
McGrady
Allen
J O'Neal
K Garnett
Duncan
Marion
Billups (playing out of his MIND right now)
Steve Nash
Baron Davis
Chris Paul

Shady Area/On Par:
Arenas
Brand
Pierce (I think I underate him, admittedly)
Anthony
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker (for intangible reasons)
R Jefferson
Larry Hughes
Big Z (only because legit centers don't exist)

Guys in the top 50 scoring I would trade for Kirilenko:
Redd
Carter
J-Richardson
Rip Hamilton
Rashard Lewis
R Davis
Wally Szcerbiak
Chris Webber
Mike Bibby
Joe Johnson
Al Harrington
Zach Randolph
Marbury
Jamison
Okur
Francis
J Terry
T Murphy
SAR
David West
Mobley
Cassell (mostly because he only has a couple of years left in him)
Butler
Mike James
Mo Williams

All said and done, I'd say I rank Kirilenko as a top 25 guy. But that's purely subjective.

Evan

 

Anyone know Hakeem's stats from the "2nd quad-dbl." game (the one the NBA took away b/c they said he had 9 assists)

 

AK-47 may not be an upper echelon player...but how many people selected in the late first round these days become "an elite player"? I've loved AKs game ever since I saw clips of him after getting drafted simply because he has all-around game. Plays on both sides of the ball. What AK has proven is that he is one of the best shot blockers in the league. What AK has proven is that he has some of the quickest hands of any forward in the league. Although he doesn't score much, he isn't called upon to score. The few Jazz games I've been able to watch, they run the offense through him. PG brings the ball up, swings it to the high post where AK surveys the court...and usually passes to a wing player curling off a screen (I think that accounts for a lot of his TOs). He averages 4.4 APG, second only to Deron Williams' 4.7.

He doesn't look to score. His scoring is erratic because he is more of a garbage man type. Everyone who thinks he is an upper echelon player; while I do like to hear my man finally getting praise, I believe that he is a (VERY good) complementary player. Overrated? Maybe. But I think he deserves to be recognized when so few players are known for their play on both ends of the court nowadays.

 

AK 47 would look great next to Yao and Tmac in the starting lineup.

 

I think A-Trains point is that whilst that looks cool, is impressive, and obviously means a player has a crapload of talent, it isn't really that great.

As easy as some may think it is to score in the NBA these days...it isn't. Right now only 24 players average more than 20 points a game. I'd much rather have someone averaging 25-30 per game.

Heck, for that matter, I'd almost rather have Mehmet these days over AK. He's played almost twice as much as AK, while being a better scorer and rebounder and a decent assist-man. Not to mention the match-up problems he causes because he can shoot threes. On the other hand, Mehmet is a defensive liability. Clearly, they are a pretty decent combination, when healthy.

I don't think AK is overrated anymore, because his value/worth has gone down the last two seasons, primarily because of health, but also because, as mentioned, he can be hit or miss sometimes, and he never, even when healthy, made the jump to that 20/10 player who also blocked shots and dished a lot.

It is a pretty impressive statline, but like A-Train, I agree that it isn't the scariest ever, and there are probably a hundred others I'd find more impressive.

 

I'd generally agree with most of your list. And with your statement, approximately.

I was only disagreeing with people who make claims that AK is "right under" Duncan, Lebron, and TMac. He's not. He's not even close (if you could quantify the difference in how much each player was worth, I think the difference between the top and him, and then between him and say Mike James--bottom of the list--I think those differences are about equal).

Related to your other post--if AK was the star of your team, I don't see that team going very far. But if Brand was the star, I think it's a possibility. Even though you might value them equally..it'd depend on your needs. They might be of equal value as players, but because you can't really center your team around AK, I don't think he can be paid like a max player.

 

If you add Yao to your list, that would make Kirilenko "not a top 25 guy."
(You also forgot Shaq (not top 50 in scoring probably), Amare (injured) and Bosh (I might have missed him from you list).)

 

AK47 is the definition of a "prefect" third-fiddle role player on a championship team. He would be in the perfect role if he was a Rocket, but on that Utah team he will never materialize into greatness or lead them to anything worthy, because he just isn't a franchise player. Okur and Boozer aren't either. IMO, if Utah can get a bona fide franchise player, and keeping ONLY one of either Boozer or Okur, they will be a great team in this league. However, there are a few 'franchise' player types in the league, and they're all taken, so Utah is going to be cursed with mediocrity/suckiness for as far as the eye sees.

 

The reason I love AK47 is, he would look great and be the perfect complement for ALMOST ALL superstars. Honestly, I can't think of ONE all-star caliber player that AK won't fit in with playing. -- and this really can't be said to too many players