On another note "CRISPEE", I have read numerous times that Shanon & MO are looking for stability, with a long term contract, not short term exceptions. ------------------
Ughh what about Jason "Double Clutch" Collier and Dan "Hurcaletis" Langhi? The Cat said they were good players they must have helped a little....... ------------------ "We need to FOCASS".... Akeem Olajuwon
Last thing here barbourdog. If you sign Dream for 2yrs and give Shandon, Mo' and Moochie longterm deals like they want, you will NEVER see cap room again until Francis retires! Sounds like you are the one ready to bend over to player demands, and strap our ability to get a decent center, whereas I am willing to walk away from Dream and all other free agents, except Mo and Moochie. Look at my first post again, dude. How do you think I land $7m cap room for February trades. Do you not even see that my main priority is a new center, but I'm willing to shop for a year to get him? [This message has been edited by crispee (edited July 12, 2001).]
Crispee No way in hell should the Rockets sign Dream for $12 million. You say sign him for a year, I say let the politician leave. The money can be spent better somewhere else. We can overpay alot of players for one year and trade them in the middle of the year. DREAM DOES NOT DESERVE 12 MILLION. HE DESERVES A LITTLE MORE THAN EWING, NOTHING MORE. HE IS GOING TO BE A CANCER AGAIN NEXT YEAR. ------------------ Fuggetabout it
Oh really, it looks like you are drooling over the idea of giving away our cap space to Hakeem. Once again, "FEGAN WILL NOT TAKE A ONE YEAR CONTRACT, WHICH MEANS IF HAKEEM GETS HIS WAY WITH MONEY, THERE WILL BE NONE NEXT YEAR FOR A CENTER". As far as Mo & Shandon, I stated what they wanted!!! not what I would recommend the Rockets give them. Mo will definately get the long term contract, but Shandon is a long shot, unless he takes less money and a reserve role on the team (which is unlikely). Remember Fegan represents Shandon as well, so he will want a long term 5-7 million contract as well (HA HA HA HA). CRISPEE=HAKEEM Welcome to the board Hakeem!!!!! ------------------
HE IS GOING TO BE A CANCER AGAIN NEXT YEAR. Please explain how he was a cancer last year. When did the Rockets play their best ball last year -- was it after Hakeem's "cancerous" behaviour, or before? ------------------ "I guess that's YOUR theory"
Hey man, I did say let him leave. My feeling, which is completely lost on those who can't do math, is that if Dream doesn't sign a 1-yr deal, let him walk. Further, if you can actually convince Mo to take the shortest route to maximum pay and get him to sign an exception, then it makes no difference to your cap space how much you pay Dream as long as it is for 1-yr (hence my $12m rhetorical statement...uh...do you know what rhetorical means barbourdog)... If you land Dream on ANY 1yr deal, you get $10m in caproom next summer. If he wants 2yrs, you let him walk and take $7m in caproom into the February trade season. Call his frigging politician ass bluff!! Politician or not. He played well enough last yr to keep, but he was too injured for me to give him a 2yr. screw that...walk dude. No way I give him a 2yr deal.
Yes, a dumbass question, with no response expected!! Do you know what imbecile means CRISPEE? This is the first time you mentioned letting Hakeem walk, if he wants more than a 1 year deal. Well you better roll out the red carpet (out of Houston), because he did not hire an agent for a one year deal!! ------------------
Crisp- Just say that man. I started to doubt you. You have regained your status. ------------------ Fuggetabout it [This message has been edited by bigboymumu (edited July 12, 2001).]
Barbourdog: Explain to me how I get $7m salary cap for February trades if I am NOT willing to let Dream walk. Do you want to reread my first post here. I am not here to explain every little thing to you about math and the CBA rules.
nevermind the math, barbourdog: explain to me what this sentence means from my first post: "Hell, I'll take Cato and Collier into training cap if it meant I'd have $7m under the cap to improve my trade position for the trading deadline." uhhh, looks like I'm willing to go to training camp with only Cato and Collier at center and $7m under that cap from not signing Dream. you may apologize to me when ready, but please try to wipe the egg off your face, first. It is embarrassing.
Here is a serious question for you Crispee? While in agreement that Hakeem will walk if he does not except a 1 year deal (which his agent will never do). Why not go after a center now? Free agency is not the only way to get the center Rudy & Co wants. I am predicting that CD & Rudy are working on one of those King Kong Trades, as we speak. If a team suspects it will loose a big name free agent (center) next year, they will be more incline to move him now!!! While we sit with some good trade bait, (walts contract, etc..) and possible extra cap room, why not make the trade now and sure up our lineup for years to come. I will make one statement about Hakeem. I would love for him to finish his career in Houston (like he did last year), but not at the cost of the Rockets future (as most have posted on this board). If you look at the arguement that the Rockets only won games last season, due to Hakeem. Then lets really look at why we won those games. Was it Hakeems offense or his defense? His defense!!! He threw alot of bricks up last year, and coughed up the ball almost everytime he made his turn in front of the basket. So why would you not think that if we can find another solid center (via trade), that we cannot go just as deep into the playoffs. With a younger center he can continue to grow with our young nucleous. ------------------
If you can get Mo to take the MCE, I could care less what kind of 1 year deal Hakeem takes. If Les has the pockets, give him 17 mill for all I care. Get Hakeem for 1 year. The center crop next year is a LOT nicer than it is this year. Hakeem for 1 year gives Cato one more chance. BUT, as crispee says, you have to be willing to lose him as well. And then you have your nice 7 mill for midseason trades or 2000 Clipper drafts (acquiring pick #10, Corey Maggette, and 2 minor cap ogres, 3 mill in cash, for a future conditional pick). I guarantee that if the Rockets wanted to be in contact with Fegan, they would be. Why? Fegan knows we have the ability to pay Hakeem as much as 17 mill. Giving our cap space away? Nope, maintaining it. I'll take my chances with next year's center crop of Lafrentz, Kandi, and Keon Clark over Maculloch, Mohammed, and Jackson. Hakeem nor Fegan will care if it's 12 mill for 2 years, or for 1 year. Barkley and Jordan both signed 1 year deals towards the end of their careers. If you sign Hakeem to 1 mill without renouncing him, you can give him probably ~15 mill next year.
barbourdog: Yeah, you got it. REM song. This topic has gotten slightly off point, but I'm flexible. What this boils down to Dream and his quest for bucks vs. the future of this team. Plain and simple. There's no other reason you hire an agent and become a free agent for the first time in your career unless you want something more than what a team is either obligated or willing to pay you. I'd like to introduce some logic into the discussion. Question 1: Why would Dream sign a one year contract? What is the motivation of an aging player to limit his possible paycheck to one year's salary? What leverage do the Rockets have to induce Dream to sign such a deal. "None" is the answer to both questions. Question 2: Why would Mo even think about signing another short term deal? The whole reason he did that last year was to take a chance and cash in this summer. Both he and Derek Anderson were looking to a) get out of Clipperland and b) find a team that would be willing to shell out $$$ for their "star" players. Do you honestly think Mo is looking to sign the same contract he signed last year, or do you think he declared himself a free agent because he's looking for a long term deal? Why do you think the Spurs are ih such a bind with Robinson? Do you think both DA and DRobb will be playing for the Spurs next year? Neither do I...the Rockets are in the same situation with their center and their former Clipper. The whole reason he and SA signed with the Rockets for such small $$ in the first place was for the potential payout this summer. He and Shandon have no motivating factors in signing another short term deal. It's called quid pro quo. They've already shown the Rockets they were willing to take a short term loss for long term gains. Now you're suggesting the Rockets go back to them and ask them to do it again? The only answer I can imagine either one would come up with is: WHY? Stop attacking each other and start talking about the problem. The problem this club faces is the dilemma of hanging on to an aged (not aging) superstar and building for the future. It appears to me that these two options are mutually exculsive. I don't see anyway the Rockets sign Dream and either a) resign all of their free agents or b) land a decent, young free agent from another team (one with some moves in the post). Mo gave me not a whole lot to get excited about last year. Without Dream, the Rockets have no one on that team with any sort of low post game. The front court problem must be addressed. Waiting another year only delays the problem for next summer. ------------------
First time reading this and I noticed something very faulty with barbordg stand. First he said Hakeem would never take a one year deal, even if it was for 12 mill. Then later he said Hakeem should be offered a 2 year deal for the same amount (total) - with the 2nd year being a team option. I know one thing for sure, if I didnt want a one year deal for 12 mill then I do not accept a 2 year deal for the same amount with the 2nd year being a TEAM option. I know you later said he probably wouldnt do that, but crispee never said sign Dream to whatever amount and lenght he wants. He said offer him a one year deal - and when doing so it don't matter what you offer him, so 12 mill could be a nice number to honour Dream with. I would only offer Dream 6-8 mill, but I see crispee's point. If Dream really wants a 2 year deal - then he better sign for 10-12 mill (over 2 years). ------------------ The CC.net NBA Sim Board/Homepage
I'll take Kandi over Todd Maculloch or Nazr Mohammed, and probably Jackson too., and I'd take Keon Clark or Raef Lafrentz over all 3 in a heartbeat. A 1 year deal for Dream gives us 10 mill to play with. At the VERY least, we could force Toronto to pay Keon Clark 9 mill or lose him. Answer 1: Limiting money? What's the difference between 1 12 mill contract, or a 2 year contract worth a total of 12 mill? Playing an extra year. Dream was "supposed" to retire this year. Wanting two years is a little excessive. Besides, the best anyone else could do as far as 2 years, is 2 years of MCE. With only 10% increases, that comes to 9.45 over 2 years (assumed 4.5 mill=MCE). Do you take your 9.45 on a new team for 2 years, in a different city, or stay in city that loves you for one year at 10 million? 10 > 9.45 If Hakeem wants to be a "business" man and wants to play 2 years, he'd be very smart to take a 1 year 12 mill contract. Then he can do the free agent jive again if he wishes. For a team to make a contract offer of more than 12 million, they'd have to make a middle class exception 3 year deal. What team in their right mind would give Dream a 3 year contract. Answer 2: Larry Bird Rights. It's not the same contract, as last year was 2.25 mill, compared to an assumed MCE of 4.5 mill. I would not be surprised at all to see Mo sign a 2 year, ~10 million dollar contract (or 9.45 if we don't have the room). At that point, Franchise will be resigned and we won't be under the cap for a long time, so we can give Mo any kind of deal he wants. Shandon didn't really sign with us for the payoff. Utah offered more $$. When he signed we were all looking forward to the defensive ability of our swingmen Pippen and Shandon. Shandon was coming to a veteran team with the "50 Greatest" front line, but a very young backcourt that started 2 rookies. Then Quitten whines, Barkley and Dream are hurt and he's here on a young team. I thought I'd also point out the Spurs gave Avery Johnson 8 million last year. ------------------ "I always thought Hakeem was the better offensive player and DRob the better defender." Spurever Shaq would probably agree.
