It's legal, but you got your poll backwards. Your thread asks 'Is it a travel?' Then your poll offers the possible answers Yes (it's legal) - meaning the answer to the thread question is actually 'no'. or No (it's a travel) - meaning the answer is actually 'yes'. Stop making my head hurt! It's too early in the morning! But anyway, yeah it's a legal move because it's a jump. Technically, you cannot possibly have both feet leave the floor at EXACTLY the same time anyway, so it's all just a matter of degree. Some players take it to the extreme of course - Dream was just one example - but it's not a travel as long as the pivot foot does not come back down before the shot leaves the shooter's hands.
Definitely legal. You get two steps to make our move. The pivot step is one, jumping off the non pivot foot is two.
Actually there is an easier reason why its legal. Pivoting is not considered a step at all, since you have one foot always planted. So you get one step from that position, but that step must start with your left foot if the right foot is the pivot foot.
Here is the best video I could find so far of an up an under off a pivot. I'll try to find a fade away. <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-Jbm8MxrwgM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-Jbm8MxrwgM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
it's gotta be a travel. Cause if not, you could turn the fadeaway into something going towards the hoop. Pivoting on your right foot, say...pivot around, then take a huge "pivot" towards the basket, lift your right foot (pivot foot) while pushing towards the basket. All of a sudden, you go from pivoting to gaining about 6 feet across the ground without dribbling and from a stopped motion. That is definitely illegal also. So this (as you described) shouldn't be legal.
It's not illegal, but the thread does make me wonder, for the people who use the fadeaway (like me).. do you switch feet? or do you always fade off the same foot? I grew up emulating Mark Aguirre, because that roly-poly little man could get his shot off on ANYONE, even guys a foot taller, because he had this awesome turnaround fadeaway from either baseline or 3/4 off the backboard. I don't remember now if Aguirre switched feet, but I do. I can do the turnaround in either direction, so depending on which direction I spin, that determines which will be the fade foot. I am 'left-legged' (like most right-handed people? I dunno), so teaching myself to spin to the left and fade off the right leg was a challenge, but eventually, it became sweet either way. And another thing. You nail that turnaround fadeaway a couple of times, those guys will be going CRAZY trying to jump up and block it, which is when you just fake, watch them fly past you and do that same little up-and-under that Kobe does in that video. Yeah, great athletes are a good thing in basketball, but sometimes just being smarter than the guy you are playing against is all you need. :grin:
He meant to say that "just because so many get away with it, it doesn't mean it's legal" whether in the NBA or somewhere else. That move by KOBE in that YouTurd video is a travel, but on your question about the fade away, it matters if the player jumps with ONE foot or with TWO to take the shot. If the latter, then it is walking because it creates a disadvantage. Most rules were created to avoid abuse of an advantage. In the case of the two-step fade away, the offensive player has been stopped on the first step, and is using a second step illegally.
Not an NBA game, but here is a non-exaggerated version of the type of fadeaway that is being talked about. See at ~1:39. <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HOJSFki2qsA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HOJSFki2qsA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
^ You picked a BAD example... Stevie was committing almost every moving violation in the book. Carry, Palming, Double-dribbling, Travel, etc.
Makes me want to show you what I mean. I can't imagine it being legal when you extrapolate that rule to all applications
Uhhh no. How do you think big men are allowed to take a hook shot with either hand after they've picked up their dribble and their back is to the basket? They lift their pivot foot first when jumping.
It has to do with whether the pivot foot is still on the ground when the non-pivot foot (the fade foot) is placed on the ground for the jump. If the pivot foot is still on the ground, *and* if it is all in a continuous motion of a 'jump' (even if it is more horizontal than vertical) then it is not illegal - even if the pivot foot comes up first. If the fade foot hits the ground after the pivot foot has left the floor, then it's a travel. That's my interpretation of the finer points of it anyway.
In the case of a hook shot, it's different. It's called a continuation by the rules. Back to the goal, they take ONE step with their right and then on the step with their left, they take the shot. It is different when they're standing still and have already established one foot down as pivot, shake with the other, then take the second step with the pivot foot. If they step again in this case, it's a travel and NOT a continuation.
Looking at the rules, it's legal. But there's a lot of conflicting calls on this. It appears the NBA lets you take a step on fade aways as long as your pivot foot doesn't touch the ground again. And yet.. If you're in a triple threat position, it's travelling if you don't dribble the ball before you change pivot feet, independent of the original pivot foot touching the ground again. Those two different scenarios seem to be governed by two separate sets of rules. Who knows
