1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

One Business Owner's Response to President Obama

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by giddyup, Nov 2, 2008.

  1. Cannonball

    Cannonball Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    21,888
    Likes Received:
    2,334
    Johnny want to open a lemonade stand so he gets 4 friends to help. They decide that since it's Johnny's business, he will get 50% of the profit and the other 4 will split the other 50% evenly (12.5% each).

    For the first few weeks, the lemonade stand makes $40 a week. Johnny takes home $20 and his friends take home $5 each.

    Business picks up slightly and they start to make $45 a week. Johnny decides that he'll keep paying his employees what they're used to making and keep the rest. So now Johnny is taking home $25 dollars and his friends are still taking home $5 each.

    Business goes down lightly and they are now making $41 a week. Johnny is now used to making $25 a week and doesn't want to see his own cut go down so he decides to take his $25 and split the rest among his friends. So Johnny still takes home $25 but his friends are now taking home $4 each.

    The lemonade stand is making more than when is started but the employees are getting paid less. This is what the Republicans are threatening.

    Johnny is a selfish prick. He's willing to pocket more money when there's more profit but when profit goes down he makes the employees pay for the difference.

    I don't like it when selfish pricks try to hold me hostage.
     
  2. giddyup

    giddyup Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    20,466
    Likes Received:
    488
    Nothing really. It just indicates one typical response to an anticipated loss of profitability.
     
  3. giddyup

    giddyup Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    20,466
    Likes Received:
    488
    How much did Johnny have invested in the stand, the lemons, the sugar, the ice, the water, the advertising et al?

    Since it is described as Johnny's business, i would assume he bore all that risk...

    Or was the stand owned by The Neighborhood?
     
  4. bucket

    bucket Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,724
    Likes Received:
    60
    Perhaps Johnny's friends have a better alternative than working for $4 a week? If not, then I doubt Johnny would have paid them more in the first place.

    In economics, you generally start with the assumption that everyone is a selfish prick. Likewise, that's generally a good assumption to make in everyday life (as pertains to money and work).
     
  5. BetterThanEver

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    9,931
    Likes Received:
    189
    The whole story really doesn't make much sense anyway, because the small business would have it's business diverted to a Fortune 500 company that was coded as a small business under the Bush Administration. Under Obama, he might have to expand his business since they are getting the small business contracts again.
     
  6. insane man

    insane man Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,892
    Likes Received:
    5
    Dear Business Owner,

    Kindly forward my contact information to your laid off employees. We feel like they have a great legal case against your actions.

    Enjoy being sued. I heard that's worse than paying a couple more percentage points of taxes.

    Thanks,
    Any decent attorney
     
  7. insane man

    insane man Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,892
    Likes Received:
    5
    your revenue reduction has nothing to do with a higher marginal tax rate for you as a business owner.

    now of course you will throw out the argument that since everyone's taxes are raised, less people will partake of your services.

    however you fail to take into account that i have a suspicion that most small business's aren't thriving because people making over 250k are buying their goods and services. but they are probably way more dependent on the middle class. reducing taxes for the middle class, in fact would give the middle class more disposable income to use for to buy goods and services from these small businesses.

    bad argument, try again.
     
  8. BetterThanEver

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    9,931
    Likes Received:
    189
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...102200478.html?sid=ST2008102200478&s_pos=list

    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/s...08/0004910020&EDATE=THU+Oct+23+2008,+08:00+AM


    Washington Post Story Ignores Fraud in Small Business Contracting Scandal


    Bush Officials Claim Small Business Contracts are Miscoding Errors for
    the Seventh Consecutive Year

    PETALUMA, Calif., Oct. 23 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The following was
    released today by the American Small Business League:

    For the seventh consecutive year, Bush Administration officials are
    still claiming that billions of dollars in federal small business contracts
    have been diverted to Fortune 500 firms through miscoding, human error and
    computer glitches.

    A recent Washington Post story failed to mention 15 federal
    investigations, which found that blatant abuse and loopholes are rampant
    within federal small business contracting programs. Several investigations
    even found fraud.

    As early as 1995, the Small Business Administration Office of Inspector
    General (SBA IG) found fraud in federal small business contracting
    programs. In its semiannual report to Congress the SBA IG stated, "of a
    particular fraudulent practice: companies that SBA, after sustaining
    protests against them, had prohibited from representing themselves as small
    businesses, under a particular SIC code, were continuing to falsely certify
    themselves as eligible for small business set-aside contracts."
    (http://www.sba.gov/ig/igsemiannual.html)

    In 2003, the SBA Office of Advocacy commissioned a report from Eagle
    Eye Publishers, which found "vendor deception" as one of the reasons large
    firms received federal small business contracts.
    (http://www.asbl.com/documents/eagkeeye_report 2002.pdf) The American
    Small Business League (ASBL) sued the SBA under the Freedom of Information
    Act (FOIA) forcing the SBA to release the original draft of the report that
    found fraud to be the cause of the problem. However, the edited version of
    the report released by the SBA had removed "vendor deception" as a reason
    for the diversion of federal small business contracts to Fortune 500 firms
    and other large businesses.

    In 2005, based on information provided by ASBL President Lloyd Chapman,
    the SBA IG issued Report 5-16 which found large firms had received federal
    small business contracts by making "false certifications" and "improper
    certifications." (http://www.sba.gov/IG/05-16.pdf)

    Based on information provided by Chapman, the SBA IG found that GTSI
    and Insight Public Sector had misrepresented themselves as small businesses
    in order to receive federal small business contracts. In one investigation,
    GTSI was recommended for debarment for misrepresenting themselves as small
    and in another investigation Insight Public Sector paid a $1 million fine
    to settle a case in which the firm had misrepresented themselves as a small
    business to receive federal small business contracts.
    (http://www.asbl.com/showmedia.php?id=533)

    In 2005, the ASBL filed a lawsuit in Federal District Court, Northern
    District of California, which forced the SBA to release GTSI's name as the
    firm that had been recommend for debarment.
    (http://www.asbl.com/showmedia.php?id=530)

    This July, the Department of the Interior (DOI) Office of Inspector
    General released an investigation, which found the DOI had reported
    millions of dollars in small business awards to Fortune 500 firms. That
    investigation found Fortune 500 firms had listed themselves as small
    businesses in the government's Central Contractor Registration (CCR)
    database. (http://www.asbl.com/showmedia.php?id=1092)

    In February, Senator Obama released the statement, "It is time to end
    the division of federal small business contacts to corporate giants." Since
    then, Senator Obama has not mentioned the issue publicly and has not
    offered any specific solutions as to how his administration plans to
    address the problem.

    Working with Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA), ASBL President Lloyd Chapman
    has drafted legislation entitled, "The Small Business Fairness and
    Transparency in Contracting Act." The draft legislation is based on the
    definition of a small business in the Small Business Act of 1953, which
    states that a small business must be independently owned and operated. The
    legislation would preclude the federal government from reporting awards to
    publicly traded firms as small business contracts.

    "The GAO first reported this problem in 2003, there have now been over
    a dozen investigations and hundreds of stories. It is time for Congress to
    pass legislation to stop small businesses from being cheated by the
    government," ASBL President Lloyd Chapman said.
     
  9. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,623
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    Enron only came to light under the Bush Administration. It was occuring under the Clinton administration.
     
  10. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,623
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    It has a lot to do with it if your customers are also effected by the higher tax, and thus have less disposable income.
     
  11. yuantian

    yuantian Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,849
    Likes Received:
    8
    funny ****. :D go for it. :)
     
  12. BetterThanEver

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    9,931
    Likes Received:
    189
    Warren Buffet said it best.

    "Putting $1,000 in the pockets of 310,000 families with urgent needs is going to provide far more stimulus to the economy than putting the same $310 million in my pockets."

    That's a huge increase in customers with disposable income, and Buffet can still buy something.
     
  13. CHI

    CHI Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    1,009
    Likes Received:
    323
    so you want to get even with johnny by taxing him more?
     
  14. Faos

    Faos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
    Messages:
    15,370
    Likes Received:
    53

    Sincerely,

    Terrorists
     
  15. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    22,835
    Likes Received:
    12,616
    Lets do some simple math.

    Lets assume this "small" business owner is making 1 million profit a year after all his/her deductions. So under Obama's tax plan, he will paying 750,000(amount above 250K) X .04(rate increase from 35 percent to 39 percent) = 30,000 dollars more in taxes. I find it hard for me to believe that this person would have to lay off 6 people (20 percent of his payroll) because of this tax increase.
     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,169
    Likes Received:
    48,336
    You really believe that terrorists are going to have more fun under and Obama Admin than a McCain one?
     
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,297
    Likes Received:
    39,849
    Ok, I will play along....even though the story is fake.

    If I worked for this guy, I would get some Obama stickers and put them on the cars of my rivals at work.

    :D

    DD
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now