(sigh) ok, kt is a toughguy, i'll give him that. i like how he pushes people around trying to get position, but he does not post up. HE IS TOO SHORT!!! he faces the basket and has to depend on beating his man off the dribble. and then he misses at least 30% of the layups. no control. he scored as much as he did last season, because he was (in alotta games last year) the first option. who else was going to score? oscar torres? that was just about the best your ever going to see him play. how is he going to improve? get taller? now mo-t can post up (back to the basket) and has a fadeaway and a hook in the post. he can also almost always hit the midrange jumper, and has a decent first step. he dunks with authority, and does not get blocked hardly ever. he is big and plays with heart. most importantly, he scores more and does not eat up clock time. sure, i would like to see his rebounding go up, but it's not llike kt rebounds double digits a game either. HE IS TALL AND HAS LONGER ARMS THAN KT!!! sorry, i like kt, he is ok, but mo-t has a better upside. kt is just a stronger othella, and he is starting where? trade kt.
Ditto. Based on the numbers, Dennis, the only part of the game that MoT is clearly better than KT is FT%. On the other hand, KT clearly is better on the boards and defense. Collectively KT's contribution has to be considered a major plus to the team. While unstoppable is probably generous, KT's fg% of 48% suggest he could score more. For the record Malone scored more with a fg% of 45%, R Wallace did too with 47%, Webber with 50% and Antonio Davis with 43%. KT is top 15 in the league and MoT is top 20, so no need to complain, we are blessed. HP, I should tell you that I waiting for you to breakdown your proposed usage of our guards.
------------------FG%--FT%--REBS-APG-SPG--BPG--TO-----PTS Kenny Thomas----.478-.664-7.20-1.9-1.18-.92--1.99---14.1 [2002] Eddie Griffin-------.366-.744-5.70-.7--.23--1.84-.64----8.8 [2002] Maurice Taylor----.489-.735-5.50-1.5-.41--.55--1.81---13.0 [2001] Kenny Thomas----.443-.722-5.60-1.0-.54--58---1.57---7.1 [2001] Rocket River
Basketball is all about match-ups. If Ming is taking the other teams center away from the basket, then it is to our advantage to have someone who can play with their back to the basket. KT has an array of moves on the low block, and the bigger 4's in the league cannot stay with him, he is just too quick. BUT, if Ming is playing under the basket and posting up, it is our advantage to have MoT in the game because he can face up and hit the 17 footer with consistency. That is something KT cannot do. I think we should be happy to have them both. Eddie probably won't be ready to start full time, and he will also see some time at the 5 this year. So having them both only helps the team. If we are going to trade somebody, get rid of Moochie!
I agree. Why is this so hard to understand. Every team needs a guy in the rotation that can bang. And as far as MoT being taken from the offense in the second half of games being the reason for his large disparity of point production from one half to the next, I couldn't disagree more. He shoots at the beginning of the third quarter as much as he does the first. But all of a sudden, for some reason (lack of clutch maybe) the shots stop falling. At this point and with good reason, Steve and Cat began to freeze him out. Watch for it next season people, you'll be surprised.
My Assumptions: 1)Les wants a reasonable payroll, but may make some exceptions for an allstar. 2)KT is worth $$$ on open market. ------- I don't think the rockets would be content letting him go for nothing. I don't think KT at $$$ can coexist with a reasonable budget. I don't see how thinking KT's value is too much for us to expect Les to spend on a team is devaluing him. I think KT and Francis send the Rock way over cap. If the Rockets sign KT or S/T him, will the budget be reasonable? If yes, those would be good options. Trading him after 5 games, but before deadline is probably best for Les's wallet, not necassily for the team.
I thought you were defending the reason for being content to let his contract run out for nothing. What you are saying is he might be forced out of our hands, presumable because of contract squabbles. So, let's discuss your context...let's discuss Kenny being forced out of our hands by salary restraints. First, you are assume Les cares, now that he has 3 possible superstars and a new stadium with enormous profits on the horizen. Les is set to be one of the top 5 highest revenues in the NBA. So, I cannot even buy that Les is worried, besides Rice's contract expiring will offset Francis's almost one for one. Even if Les is worried so much about the $60m team budget that it might ll take to keep Francis, Ming and Griffin and everyone else together, he can sign Kenny to 3rys at average pay and wait for a move when Griffin and Ming get their raises. He is not at an unreasonable budget until then. He doesn't have to worry about re-upping Kenny now based on future projections. He can trade Kenny later. Further, at that point in the future when he does have to reup Griffin and Ming, he'll also have options like letting Cato's contract run out, trading Moochie or MoT, or just never using the MCE again. If Les is *really worried* about cap room, and Griffin/Ming deserve max pay and major minutes, why wouldn't he be pointing at MoT's salary. Keeping Kenny would save money on a team where Griffin is an All-star.
I was defending that letting him walk would save less money than just his salary now. If the rockets were to sign both Francis and KT, it would give them almost 50 million among 9 players. There would be little flexibility in case Murphy's law takes over. I don't think Les will go more 2-4 mill over luxury cap iif there is one. If Les opens his wallet for KT, I'd be very happy with that if he left room for a rainy day. I still think trading him before deadline this year would be best since you keep Les's wallet open plus the rocks get a cheap, good player with years left on contract.
I'm not following that. I don't see how KT is a cap issue or a Luxury Tax issue. I can show you that we are not hurting for a Luxury Tax...(even if the Tax ever happens, which is a big if)...until Ming/Griff/Nach get their raises. At that point, we will go way over any threshold if we don't move anyone. My quick summation has us around $50m before these raises (giving SF max; giving KT Cuttino pay; and figuring yearly raises for current players). After the raises, and another extra $17m or so for Ming/Griff/Nach. At that point, Kenny's salary will not be an issue as much as Cato and MoT's fully-matured contracts as backups at like $8m each at that time. And Kenny's contract certainly won't be an issue if we extend him only 3yrs, which is reasonable for him and us. Joe Joe, if you are so worried about Luxury Taxes, Les can sign him to 3yrs, plus we can purge Cato or MoT or Moochie. We will have to do more than one if we plan to pay Francis/Ming/Griff max deals.
I'd like the "keep KT" club to explain to me the minutes for each player when/if we enter the season with these players in the frontcourt: Yao Ming, Kelvin Cato, Maurice Taylor, Eddie griffin, Kenny Thomas, Glen Rice, Bostjan Nachbar, and Terrence Morris. Ming/Cato KT/MoT/Griff Rice/Nachbar/T-Mo Please, I want to know. I really do. I don't want to hear "Rice will be injured" or "Rice sucks" or "Nachbar won't play" or "T-Mo can't hit a jumpshot". These players are pencilled in to get minutes. Rice and T-Mo WILL get minutes. YOU may not like the way they play, but you know Rudy will play them.
Well if i were getting 48mill for basically 14pts per game i would be happy too. Cato is happy,Shawn Kemp is happy, Juwan Howard is happy too. I don't know of too many overpaid players who aren't happy. This KT vs Taylor will go on and on simply because we're talking about limited players with a very short ceiling. If Thomas or Taylor starts on your team , your 4 position is avg at best. What really cracks me up is this so called "great midrange shooter and scorer" we have in Taylor, yet they jumped at the chance to grab a 4 in Griffin. Both Players have short comings whether its by height in Thomas or sheer laziness in Taylor. Both were mid round picks for a reason and not by accident. I'm not judging all middle rd picks by saying they don't have anything to offer because they do. What I'm saying is that the questions about Taylors game is still the same and the questions about Thomas short comings are the same also. The common solution for the Rockets is ultimately Griffin of course. Of course everyone knows he's young and not as strong as you would like right now, but from sheer talent and intangibles, he's the best of the 3. Garnett was the same way and he didn't come off the bench or "learn" from the bench. He learned by getting pushed around and everything else that comes from playing basketball. Taylor for whatever reason is a decent mid range shooter, but Thomas didn't shoot 47% by post ups and driving to the basket all the time either. He made more than his share of mid range jumpers. After that, people will say, but Taylor has more range. So what! If Thomas knows his limitations and stick with them I applaude him. And for all thoe talking about Taylor getting the team off to a hot start with 10 quick points in the first qt, then scoring 4 the rest of the game isn't anything special about that either. Most good players always say , its not how many you score , its when you score. Basically Taylor wouldn't do anything for the rest of the game. Basically,I'm bored just like everyone else and ready for the hoops to start. All these accusations about an overweight,out of shape taylor out playing Thomas is probably a bunch of crap. Personally, I don't think he could have outplayed Thomas the first yr he came here,but now all of a sudden, a guy coming off a major injury whom by all accounts is out of shape, will outplay Thomas? I'm in no ways a very staunch Thomas supporter, but i will say this about him, he has improved every yr since he came into the league.He hasn't had the rah-rah and the other stuff attached, he has just been a man of his word. The bigger question is who has the higher trade value or would accept a future bench role maybe this yr or no later than next yr? Contracts aside,the best fit bench player would be Thomas, but he also has the higher trade value because of his low salary cap number vs last yrs production. Neither is nothing special and neither is top player among their position, plain and simple.
I'd like the "Cato is Good" club to explain to me where Cato's minutes are after Ming and Griffin start sharing Center minutes, once Griffin fills out. When that happens, and Rice is past-tense, I can easily show you how both MoT and KT get 25mpg, while Griffin gets 35mpg. The key to understanding that the PF logjam is a myth is realizing that Cato, TMo and Rice are not considered in our title contention plans.
And for all thoe talking about Taylor getting the team off to a hot start with 10 quick points in the first qt, then scoring 4 the rest of the game isn't anything special about that either. Most good players always say , its not how many you score , its when you score. Basically Taylor wouldn't do anything for the rest of the game. Which brings us back to the title of the post.
I'm going to assume Ming gets 35 minutes also. If that's true, the minutes you have listed for KT, MoT, and Griffin have to include 24 minutes at SF. Who plays those minutes, who starts at SF, and what about Nachbar, if he doesn't start.
Ming 35 at 5 Griff 22 at 4 and 13 otherwise Mo 13 at PF and 12 otherwise KT 13 at PF and 12 otherwise Nach 24 at SF = 48min times 3 positions = 144 minutes... Notice how without considering Cato, Rice and TMo, I land a starting playoff 8-9 for a title run that includes some serious ass, really good players. Not Cato and Terrence Morris,,,,that's ridiculous. Add those minutes up. It equals 144 minutes for 3 positions, just like the rules require!!! Think title contention...we don't have a PF logjam...because Rice, Tmo and Cato are not in our future
Seems to me that we need to keep in mind that games are often won. . not by the difference in the starting 5 .. but the quality of the bench. Add in the opportunity for the coach to present problem matchups. . . then . . . .it improves the quality of play of everyone on the team. When Cato is playing Center it is one thing. . .When Yao goes into play. . . .the dynamics may greatly change. . . do you just stay with him one on one. . so. . if. . .I can come with a second team of Ming, Griffin, Thomas, Moochie and maybe leave Cutino in . . . .while the starters of Francis, Taylor, Mobley & Cato. . . .seems that you have some pretty good challenges for teams with much weaker benches. . . I also think a special weapon we have is when Rudy wants to go small and plays Moochie, Cuttino and Francis. . . . .I think it creates potential for scoring explosions. . . We need Thomas and Taylor to be great and both are on an improving trend. . . . .good things will happen as we win over 50 this year.
I have no research but I suspect that every team endured injuries to starters last year. . .the greater the team flexibility. . . .and deeper the bench. . the better the team can handle such adversity. I really like this team. . . .all the way . . and I hope it is as good as I think it potentially is. . . Cato is going to continue to be motivated. . . with Ming on board .. . .Cato improves his play. . .or the bench beckons. . .I'm of the opinion he will be improving.
HP, I am not guaranteeing a title next year but if I was Rudy T, I should be thinking that I have a team that can win the championship. I would not tell the media that I am going to win but I would structure and plan everything like I know we have a very good chance to win the championship. I have the info in another thread but basically we have to make 2 more fgs per game and allow .5 fgs less compared to last year. Given that the resources we are adding this year, that should be probable. In fact it would not surprise me if we have home court in the first round. Why? Because only Dall, Sac, Lal and Spurs look more ready that us and I think the Spurs are venerable. So I am only looking at next year's playoff run and to look further is a bit useless given how many variables there are. So in looking for next year my proposed rotation in the frontcourt is: C....Cato - 18mins.....Ming - 22mins....Griffin - 8mins PF..Taylor - 20mins...Griffin - 24mins...Thomas..4mins SF..Rice - 16mins......Thomas - 20mins..Nachbar - 12mins
C- Ming 30 minutes Cato 12 Minutes Griff 6 Minutes PF- MoT 20 minutes KT 18 minutes Griff 10 Minutes SF- Rice 24 Minutes Griff 14 Minutes Nachbar 10 Minutes I don't see any way Ming can play over 30 minutes (on average his 1st year). There aren't many big men who can step in and play that much on a transition team. Nachbar may earn more minutes from Rice and Mo may earn more minutes when he's playing well. So I do think ther eis ample minutes to go around assuming Griff is flexible enuff to play at 3 different positions.
