I read an article in Outside Magazine a couple of months ago and it described a French man who took apart a French-owned McDonalds to protest the spread of American companies in Europe. His main protest was the cheapening of food. He despised McDonalds and it's cheap meat in comparison to French wine and cheese. I just wanted to see if anyone saw this article. I can't find a link to it. At what point do creating a peaceful world where everyone can comunicate and do business, result in the dilution of cultures. What can we do to prevent this from happening?
Slumpbusters: I'm glad you raised that question. It is the very question I wanted to consider when I started this thread. I find it really interesting that we have such an extreme concern for our own culture suffering damage or destruction but seem to have almost no concern for other cultures being damaged by our pervasiveness. If French resaurants started popping up all over the place (LeDonald's???) like Starbucks and we were required to speak French to do business with others, it would probably piss us off too. You cannot decide for yourself that it is wrong and harmful for other cultures to influence us if you also believe that it is fine for us to influence other cultures even if they don't want us to do so.
Jeff, I highly recommend reading the book I mentioned in this thread (not the other book). It is basically about US culture invading other cultures, and how it is partly desired/welcomed by those target cultures, but partly reviled - and possibly more responsible for global anti-US sentiment than anything else. It's pretty nonbiased, if that helps... It goes into globalism and its effects upon developing societies, and how the US cultural push is destroying many traditional and tribal cultures. It also defines a globalist context for many conflicts we see around the world today. Fascinating subject. Good book, and I highly recommend it. Very insightful, and more of an educational experience than a primer for controversy. unlike *that other book*
Life is about competition, and we are winning. Forget the cake- let them eat Big Macs. <font size=1>and speak English</font>
Actually, I have seen that book before. That is really more my wife's bag than mine. She was the sociology minor, but I might give it a look. I wasn't kidding when I said many of those kinds of books make me sleepy. Unfortunately, I never acquired the taste for heavy reading, but I muddle through. cmrockfan: Competition against what? Each other? What a terribly hollow and shallow way to lead life. I'm sure you wouldn't be so confident in those beliefs if America was being altered by outside cultural forces. Of course, you don't like American "culture" being challenged by people who don't speak English so I can only assume that, if you were German, you'd feel the same way about English.
Listen to your wife, then. It goes to this subject like a coon dog on a water s*it. It's a good read, especially if you're interested in this subject...
rimbaud: Yeah, you coopted the term, so GIVE IT BACK! j/k We Canadians aren't trying to get away from you, (and that would be pretty hard to do anyway). We just want to be respected for who we are. You are our largest trading partner and we are your largest trading partner. Between us we have the longest undefended border in the world, a border that is over 4,500 km long! We don't want to get away from you. We just want to be clear that we are not you. But I take your point. The USA should come up with a different name for its people. What should we call you? United Statesians? Stateish? What term would best signify your people without infringing on other people's shared meaning? This sounds like a task for a semiotician. Jeff: This is a broad topic you introduce. It's hard to know where to start. From my standpoint, there are points on either side. The difference, I think, is the spirit of the given policy, if that makes any sense. Quebec has very restrictive cultural laws, within Canada. There are laws that control what language people can educate their children in, and what language public signs must be in. If this was just about culture, I wouldn't have that much of a problem (I could argue with mandatory French education, but wouldn't argue with having French as a mandatory subject). But that's not the essence of what it happening there, IMO. I lived eastern Ontario for a few years and went to Quebec often, and was very surprised by the attitude. The separatist attitude has strong nationalist and racist elements in it. (In the general populace this is maintained by ignorance, but amongst the leaders it is something else). So if this is the spirit of the laws, then I am against them. This probably isn't what you are getting at. Take the next step in your argument and I'll respond to that.
Grizzled: Please. Call us "Americans". We'll call you "Canadians". We'll call those from Mexico "Mexicans". Those from Brazil will want to be called "Brazilains". The Colombians I know like the term "Colombians". I suspect that if I knew any Nova Scotians, they'd want to be called "Nova Scotians", or something to that effect... Rimbaud's suggestion that we all be called "Americans" is ridiculous (as you, a Canadian, are quick to point out). We are labeled by our nationality - and rightly so. I am more an "American" than a "Texan". I am certainly not a "American-Texan of Irish-German descent".... Well, I am, but that's not what I classify myself as. I am an American first and foremost. Yes, we all live on the continent labeled as America. But no one except USA residents want to be called simply "Americans". Am I wrong? Funny how the same elements who call for everyone to be called "American" pointedly deny that everyone outside of US citizens want to be labeled by their state'sname, rather than some pan-continental label?
1. It wasn't a suggestion, it was just a statement that *technically* we are all "Americans." I, personally, don't care - they are all stupid labels in the grand scheme of things. 2. As I already stated (although not directed to you), you are wrong - there are people outside of the US who consider themselves and want to be called "American." Although, as I said, there might be something more to that than technicalities.
Bluenoser will do too. And if you're from Halifax Nova Scotia, you are a Haligonian. (Just a pointless bit of trivia for you.) Hey, I'm fine with the Canadian label. I was just taking up rimbaud's point. The hyphen thing has always be a bit odd for me personally, because I'm 5 generations Canadian on both sides (although I do have a Welsh grandmother.) Before that I was one generation American on one side, and go back to the Mayflower on the other. Ireland and England before that, then I lose one and the other goes to France and then probably Denmark, but that's in about 900 A.D. … so, what am I other than Canadian? We did have a controversy here when we took the last census here because there wasn't an option for just "Canadian." Some people objected and said they were just Canadian, and I can appreciate that too. To say that I'm Irish-Canadian doesn't really seem right since no member of my family has lived there for 250 years. Anyway, ramble ramble...
Well, I did teach you that there are non-US citizens out there who want to be called "American." Consider yourself improved.
I'm fine with Canadian, but I have run into a number of Europeans, Germans in particular, who wanted to call me American because I was from North America. I corrected them, of course, but they still wanted to call me American, which didn't go over very well.
Calgary will be the capitol of the 51st state. OK, I'm trying to get a rise Canada could have had French cuisine, British culture, and American technology. Instead it ended up with American culture, British cuisine, and French technology... J/K
Grizzled, Your situation perfectly illustrates Barthes's model. As there are multiple interpretants (Canadians, Germans, etc), there are multiple signifieds from the original signifier(s). The resulting inability of others to understand such complexities resulted in a communication breakdown. Perhaps you should have spent the time explaining to those pesky Germans sign/signified relationships. You asked my solution to the label game earlier...perhaps we could cut out all ambiguity and label ourselves with the global coordinates of the spot on which we were born. Not only does this create a more personal signifier, but it cannot be confused with any other location/region. Everyone would simply carry around a global coordinates chart and they could see exactly where your birth took place and further understand your complexities/mindset, etc. Simple, eh?
