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Omri Casspi cannot guard elite big PFs – Math or Myth?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by The Jabberwock, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. The Jabberwock

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    Hi all!

    I see tons of posts arguing that the main problem with playing Casspi as our 4
    is that he can't guard big, physical 4's like Randolph, Boozer etc.
    The issue was mostly stressed by many CF's in CXbby's recent thread 'Start Asik or Casspi'
    (Twin Towers vs Stretch-4).

    Well, you can't avoid the fact that Omri IS undersized for a PF, at least in the NBA,
    and especially when the main alternatives in our squad are DH12 (in Twin Towers formation)
    or 7ft DMo…

    Still – when so many of us here state this as a fact, I can’t help but wonder –
    Is this notion really based on hard evidence, or just a knee-jerk concept?
    I would really like to check this out (with your help) based on our previous
    preseason games, but also in the future, as the season unfolds:


    Can Omri Casspi guard elite big PFs?

    I need your help in this follow-up, as I'm not sure I have the info resources for the task…

    Meanwhile, just to get the feel of it – a short non-methodical probe:

    In our last game with the Grizzlies, I noted that the NBA TV commentator actually commended Casspi -
    at least once - for his defense on ZBo, (Denying him of the pass sometime in Q1).

    Hence, I decided to take a look at our last preseason game vs the Grizzlies with Casspi/Asik on court,
    and specifically at the way we handled ZBo (below), as I figured he is one fine specimen
    of the kind of players that Casspi is supposedly struggling against.


    I feel that need to add some reservations right up front:

    1. That's just a pitch for others to follow. One game is a VERY small sample, and on top of that –
    it WAS preseason.

    2. After the way the game started (9:0 with the Twin Towers…) the "Shock and Owe" effect
    may have been carried over to influence ZBo's game for the rest of the night…

    3. Having Casspi on court without Asik usually means, of course, having Casspi and DH12 on court…
    (But then again - having Dwight as backup is a part of the deal for anyone on our front-court,
    and it's the very reason we CAN play stretch-4 for such long minutes.
    Also - I remind you that Dwight had Marc Gasol on his hands…)


    So what are the nums?

    All in all ZBo only played about 24 minutes, and Casspi – less than 20.
    Casspi only shared the court with Randolph very briefly (4.5 minutes in 3 short stretches).
    Interesting enough – it wasn't because McHale tried to spare Casspi of hardship and humiliation!
    In 2 out of 3 cases it was Joerger, Memphis coach, who took ZBo out
    just 1-2 minutes after Casspi started guarding him.
    I find that intriguing – If indeed Casspi is a weak link in D, as some say,
    not to mention when he's guarding Randolph, shouldn't an NBA coach try to maximize and exploit that?

    Code:
    
    Our Lineup	          ZBo's Minutes     ZBo's score    Asik's/Casspi's score      Comments
    ================================================================================================================
    
    1. Asik [B][COLOR="SeaGreen"]in[/COLOR][/B] & Casspi [COLOR="Red"]out[/COLOR]	     12	               4	                4	
    (Mainly Twin Towers)
    
    2. Casspi [B][COLOR="SeaGreen"]in[/COLOR][/B] & Asik [COLOR="red"]out[/COLOR]	     4.5	        2	                 5	       No field goals for ZBo on Casspi
                                                                                           'And-1' for Casspi on ZBo
    
    3. Asik & Casspi both [B][COLOR="SeaGreen"]in[/COLOR][/B]     1.5	        2	                 0
    (No Dwight…)
    
    ================================================================================================================
    
    Total	                     18	               8	                 9	
    
    
    I don't know about you, but it doesn't seem like Casspi got slaughtered in there… :)
    Looks more like Dwight is the decisive factor.

    Oh, and BTW – the best anti-ZBo lineup was:

    Code:
    
    Our Lineup	             ZBo's Minutes      ZBo's score 
    =============================================================
    
    4. Asik & Casspi both [COLOR="Red"]out[/COLOR]          6               2	
    (Mostly DH12 + DMo)
         
    =============================================================
    
    
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. BigggReddd

    BigggReddd Member

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    The sample size is too small.
     
  3. Naija Texan

    Naija Texan Member

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    He's a SF, unless he matches up against more finesse PFs that don't have the strength advantage, he will get worked going against a PF with strength and post ability. It is the same reason Parsons when put in that position gets worked you can't expect small ball to work all the time especially with one on one defense.
     
  4. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

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    Really? This is where we are going now? 4.5 MINUTES in the PRESEASON is worth talking about?

    To criticize others for knee jerk reactions and lack of hard evidence and then post this crap is stupid.
     
  5. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    If you are sampling anything from the Memphis preseason game only the point of this thread immediately has failed.... much less only sampling 4.5 minutes of actual playing time.
     
  6. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    People who complain about Casspi at PF view the game in a vacuum.

    Can Casspi guard elite PFs 1 on 1? No, of course he can't.

    But the game of basketball is 5 on 5. Casspi can guard elite PFs just as well as Rashard Lewis and Ryan Andersen, with their teams defending at a top 5 level, as long as he has the best help side shot blocker in the league behind him - Dwight Howard.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Agree with CXbby. In a team concept playing alongside Dwight/Asik, I think he can do his job effectively as a PF within their defensive sets.

    Matt Bullard couldn't guard Karl Malone 1 on 1, but they had Hakeem in the middle to scheme their defense around to make players like Bullard effective defensively, and punish the other team on the offensive end.
     
  8. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Sample Size
     
  9. WinkFan

    WinkFan Contributing Member

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    Yeah, that's an awesome example. Matt Bullard was so effective defensively, he played 55 minutes in the playoff for the first title team, and went to play in Greece the next year.
     
  10. Patterned919

    Patterned919 Member

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    That's a good .
     
  11. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Dwight Howard covers for a lot of our other player's defensive shortcomings. So the opposing team will find it difficult to take advantage of our small 4s in the post, whether that's Casspi or Parsons. On the other side of the court, it is going to completely **** up their defensive schemes when their PF has to cover the 3pt line. If Serge Ibaka is guarding the corner 3, that means no one is guarding the basket. We've already seen exactly how this type of spread offense works, with the Heat winning a title with it.

    The effectiveness of this lineup was never in question. In fact, I can almost guarantee you that small ball will be tops this year as our most devastating lineup(just like last year). The only question I've been asking all along is do we start the game with it, or bring it off the bench as our ace in the hole? Either way you will see it plenty.
     
  12. Zalgiris

    Zalgiris Member

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    Omri Casspi cannot guard elite big PFs – Math or Myth?


    FACT
     
  13. jtr

    jtr Contributing Member

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    No. Casspi will be run over by good power forwards in the NBA and will be nothing but a stain on the court after the game. Casspi has never been known for his defense and pitting him against LMA, West or even Bosch is an incredible mismatch. In addition Casspi will get no calls against those established players. It would be a disservice to him and the team to match him up against most power forwards in the NBA.
     
  14. Zalgiris

    Zalgiris Member

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    The Jabberwock
    Member
    Since: Jul 2013


    Wait, when did Rockets sign Casspi? Oh yeah - Jully, 2013... I am so tired of all the Lin only and Casspi only fans.
     
  15. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Oh such a clever catch. You wont the internet award of the day. Congrats.

    I'm just simply talking about a stretch 4 who came off the bench, couldn't guard a parking spot, played alongside two elite defensive bigs, and the team overall was still effective defensively with him on the court.

    And actually in 91/92 and 92/93 Bullard averaged 16MPG and 17 MPG before injuries kept his minutes very low in 93/94. However, 93/94 Robert Horry really stepped up as a major contributor and diminished the need for Bullard coming off the bench as that team often went small with Elie at the 3 and Horry at the 4.

    Bullard was absolutely a contributor in the early 90's and one of the first of his kind of the prototypical stretch 4. Up to this point in Casspi's career i definitely think he's more than a good enough comparison of a stretch 4 to get the point across... that is unless you want to be a smart aleck.
     
    #15 dobro1229, Oct 30, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  16. The Jabberwock

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    Now THAT's hard evidence,
    (oh mighty Lithuanian God of facts...)
    Thanks for helping me see the light!
     
  17. CXbby

    CXbby Member

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    Could Robert Horry guard elite PFs?

    When he is playing next to Hakeem and Shaq - yes he can.
     
  18. The Jabberwock

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    Yes, me too...
    And how long was it when DMo left Zalgiris Kaunas to join the Rockets? ;)
     
  19. The Jabberwock

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    Please read my post again...

    I ASKED for evidence, and for wider samples from YOU, fellow CFs.
    I MADE CLEAR mine were no stats but a glance at one preseason game.
    I NEVER IMPLIED I was even trying to propose an answer to the question in my thread.

    Why is a thread a FAIL if it poses just a question for others to answer?

    How come no one could offer an answer based on anything other than their own feelings, beliefs, convictions and/or prejudice?
    what's so brilliant about NO SAMPLE?
    Why would it trump over a SMALL sample?
    Why R U all so reluctant to even try and get a BIGGER sample?

    I saw that I was already called stupid in this thread, so I love an intelligent (based in Intel) response to help me wisen up. :)
     
  20. Panda23

    Panda23 Member

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    4.5 minutes!?!??!!??!

    notsureifsrs..

    look, Casspi has length, can move his feet decently, but any PF with sand in his pants and a decent post game will eat him.

    With that said, IN the 4.5 minutes... he did seem to front decently, and obviously dwight/asik can help..pick your poison
     

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