Dream and Russell are the best defensive players in league history BY FAR Duncan isn't even the best defender in his franchise's history.
not trying to discredit what they have done, but we are playing on a different era with different rules. there were so much freedom back in the days
an alternate way to look at it is this... you're the gm of an NBA team who owns the number one pic, and the two top prospects are 21 year old big men Akeem Olajuwon from the University of Houston and Tim Duncan from Wake Forest University. Given that you actually do know how their careers panned out, who would you choose to draft and build your team around? although I think that Tim Duncan is still one of the more underrated players due to his non flashy game, he is the frontrunner in the greatest PF of all time discussion, Dream could just do so much. His post game was unstoppable at his best, he affected the game so much defensively. I've did a project on Dream and spent countless hours watching highlights and clips and games and he just was so great, and made everyone around him great. Duncan benefited from some great teammates in Parker and Manu, and their tailor made game for Pop's system. In the discussion of rings, it's hard to not talk about the fact that Hakeem played in one of the greatest era's of NBA basketball, which included his airness, while Duncan did have some formidable foes in O'Neal, Yao, Dirk, Deke, Dwight, Phoenix Amare, Ben and Rasheed Wallace, and KG, Hakeem's competition was still tougher. (For the record I would pick the Akeem kid)
Don't think this was posted. I just came across it while watching Dream vids. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_By2-Z3tOms" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I think this is the main sticking point. How are we exactly judging greatness? The Wilt v Russell comparison is apt.
Duncan is one of the best PF's of all time, Dream one of the best centres, Duncan does not possess Dream amazing ability to Fockass!!!!!
Right, because according to that list, Tim Duncan is behind Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, David Robinson, and Allen Iverson. I'm definitely going to take that seriously. As for rimrocker's argument on "Hakeem had just as good of a career" - most of those are some combination of stats that I just really don't care a lot about. Yay points? Blocks and steals? Duncan is a better passer, better rebounder, tiny bit worse scorer, and has higher win shares. He is also a far better team player and has had a better demeanour, especially compared to Akeem. It's nothing against Dream, but I'm a massive Duncan fan, and rate him the 5th best player ever. Also, while I'm going at it with "things which will get me killed at Clutchfans", I'm also going to argue that Shaq was superior to Olajuwon as well, and really to me there's a much better argument for Shaq over Duncan ( something I flip flop on a lot) as opposed to Olajuwon over Duncan.
I know but I meant what they think in terms of winning. I don't think there's any contest who is the better individual player.
Stephen Jackson, Parker, Manu, and Robinson beg to differ. Duncan never had to play with crappy teammates.
Duncan actually is the second guy to do so. 2003 Finals, 24.2 PPG + 17 RPG + 5.3 APG + 5.3 BPG + 1 SPG, almost a quadruple-double in one game and no star players around him. Hakeem was a better player, but you shouldn't underestimate Timmah, he is a unique player for sure
Parker was playing like Aaron Brooks with Yao on 09. You could never ever predict how good or bad he would be in any upcoming game. Simply too young to tell ya, no consistency at all. Manu was a role player, as same as Jax, Robinson was two month away of retiring at 38 years old. Our cast at 94 with Otis, Kenny, Vernon, Horry, Elie and Cassell was playing at the same level if no better because of that crazy three-point shooting
Hakeem was more talented, but Duncan's longevity and ability to defer to younger players as he's aged should be praised. Duncan also has benefited from playing for one of the greatest coaches, with one of the best FOs, ever.
career achievements- duncan< better player- hakeem not knocking duncan, he is a great player, but hakeem is the dream.
Recently we've been waiting, and waiting, and waiting for the spurs to just die. but they havent. duncan is still amazing, but I'll take Olajuwon on this, he was just complete
This isn't fair to ask this question on a Rockets fan forum. Duncan is amazing for multiple reasons, and so is Hakeem. I would say Hakeem had a better "prime" but in doing so I don't want to take anything away from Duncan. His prime was amazing too. However, if I were to take off my Rockets-colored glasses, I would probably argue that what I care most about is being consistently great and winning titles. And Duncan's teams have been competing for titles nearly every year he's been in the league (or at least it seems - I haven't looked up their historical records/standings). But of course I'm not taking off my Rockets-colored glasses, so Hakeem it is!
More freedom to play defense? Remember, they couldn't zone up until recently. Imagine what Dream's block numbers would be he didn't have to be glued to his man and roam the paint like now.
Olajuwon was better in every facet of the game than Duncan (except maybe banked shots, and that's because using the glass is for ****ies).
Aside from passing, rebounding, and general demeanor. And conversely, there really isn't much that Hakeem did that was THAT much better than Duncan, aside from perhaps volume scoring.
If you take 32 GMs and gave them a choice, 32 would pick Olajuwon. Not a knock on Duncan, he's great, but let's be real. Also Popovich >>> Rudy T. A more apt comparison is Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. The reason Peyton is widely considered better is because he IS the team, whereas Tom Brady is the QB of Bill Belichik's well oiled machine. Brady's got more rings, but that has more to do with coaching and his surrounding pieces than anything a direct skills comparison between him and Manning.
