Olajuwon vs. Duncan

Karl Malone numbers are vastly inflated. He was the first, second, and third option on offense for most of his career.

 

Oh my...

dandorotik...these were some of my favorite things I have ever read on clutchfans

 

Both were great players. One of the greatest things about Duncan has been his longevity, which is a skill or talent. The dude is 38 and still looked good in the Finals. Hakeem wasn't as good for as long. Not very many players were. Maybe Kareem?

But still, at their peaks, I honestly don't even think it is much of a contest. And that is true whether you consider Duncan a PF or a C, doesn't matter. Hakeem was better.

 

Inflated? You don't become the 1st, 2nd & 3rd option by accident. To his credit, he hit his jumpers consistently which gave him another 5-6 years of longevity. As far as greatest PF:

1) Malone
2) Barkley
3) Duncan


Looking at how they played, it's no denying Malone and Barkley were better players. Duncan's simply a product of the system. The Spurs and Popovich are the best organization in the history of basketball. Yes he's had a better career than any PF. But he's not the player Barkley or Malone were. Those two were outta one man wrecking crews in their primes

 

I think there are about 15-20 players you could put in the same boat, essentially: Bird, Magic, Jordan, Dream, Isiah, Kobe, LeBron, Shaq, Jabbar, Russell, Duncan, Big O, a few others. It's possible that Dream could have won 6 championships, and Duncan only 2. It's possible that Dream would retire ringless- Hakeem was basically one John Starks 3-pointer and a Wesley Person 3-pointer from being ringless. Same with Lebron- he could very easily be ringless- and Shaq's Lakers were minutes away from being a 1-ring wonder.

Do some of these players have a slightly better career? Yes. Would I prefer some of them in crunchtime situations? Yes. Would I prefer some for their longevity? Sure. But all those above, once you get to that level, debates are just exercises in futility- they're all great, they're all Hall of Famers, and they're all champions. Saying things like Duncan is clearly better than Hakeem, or vice versa, is more about the ignorance of the poster than the truth.

 

During his prime, Duncan wasn't a product of any system. He WAS the system, and he singlehandedly led the Spurs to a title in 2003.

 

That's right, and Duncan was on an extremely solid team & organization (which he was a big part of). It's hard to separate personal from team accomplishments.

 

That's a pretty inaccurate statement. They met 5 times in the playoffs and Shaq's teams won 3 of the 5 series and 14 of the 25 times they played. During that time Shaq's teams won 3 titles and Duncan's won 2. Shaq was still a solid player up by the time Duncan won his 4th championship in 07 so taking that into consideration they each won 4 titles while both were in the league against one another while both guys were still on top of or close to being on top of their game.

 

Dream reminds me of Garnett. Both were freakishly athletic and very skilled. Duncan is more like Kareem. Highly skilled,athletic enough. Kareem and duncan never really used their athleticism to capacity,so when they slowed,they were still very,very productive. Hell,Areem won his 6th mvp at 35 I believe. Garnett and Dream used their athleticism and skill full tilt. As a result,they kinda fell off a cliff. Garnett is done just as Dream was done in toronto. At 36,it was over for Dream and its over for Garnett too. Kareem and Duncan are still good older players. Plus,there is no shaq,duncan,zo morning in the league right now like it was at the end of Dream career. That's why duncan can still do what he do. He plays against howard,gasol,and that's pretty much it.

 

Horry played with Shaq, Duncan, and Hakeem. And thinks this....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/n_-9Z2LF4fI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

True. But Kareem DOMINATED well after his prime. That man was nothing like Tim Duncan. Kareem was on another level

 

I agree.

I think more casual fans value offense, it's flashier and easier to identify visually and with raw stats (for example ask a casual fan for a GOAT defensive list and I'm guessing you'll usually get a blank stare) and rings/resume (which are often team based and flawed) to rank individual players

Even though rings and accolades like MVP are team based awards (only players on the top or near top record season teams win) they provide mental shortcuts to actually doing the work of research. The same can be said for stat users don't know the context or flaws of some stats like winshares or PER to do the same. Not saying I'm perfect as I'm still learning too.

Much of it is media based, as the Rockets weren't broadcast as much because Houston is a smaller market to LA, Boston, Chicago etc. for a large part of Dream's career so people didn't seen him play as often.

But Hakeem has had a resurgence after his games became more available online and more people could watch his game and compare it with other greats. I've seen some non Rocket die hard basketball fans rate him very highly on their all time lists because they've looked closely at him and compared him to the others.

I used to be the same way and put Kareem, Wilt & Russell, Bird/Magic etc at the top due to being a casual fan. When you put the microscope to these guys some guys look worse (Wilt, Kobe and others) and some guys like Hakeem look much better under scrutiny.

 

Take two of the most arrogant, competitive players in NBA history, Jordan and Shaq.

Jordan said if he were creating a team from scratch with anyone from NBA history, he'd start with Dream.

Shaq, argued by many to be among the best centers and players of all eras, who has no problem criticizing other players and big men, and has no lack of ego, has nothing negative to say about Dream and puts Olajuwon ahead of himself in respect, prestige, and impact.

It was all a Dream...

 

Give Hakeem Pop and the Spurs supporting cast and I'd be his ring total goes up as well.

 

You do know that this a Rockets board filled with the most rabid, devoted, and long standing fans imaginable? Very predictable poll results.

 

I love that commercial!

 

I'll take either one to start my franchise.

You gotta take your hat off to Timmy, he has been doing it a long time and by most accounts went about his job like a complete professional. Any team, Rockets included, should be lucky to have a players like that. Tim Duncan is San Antonio basketball, GOAT.

 

Duncan "makes" them a solid team and organization, he's not simply part of it. Notions that he plays for the GOAT coach lacks objectivity as said coach has never been a HC w/out Duncan (we can ignore the year that led to Duncan's acquisition as there half that team was inactive from my memory). Duncan is a smart, selfless, team guy who'd rather push someone else out in the limelight to collect the sunshine he's earned and he's clearly one who sets the tone and leads his team both on and off the court. It's easy to point to him singularly as the reason for their team accomplishments.

 

95 rockets would defeat any spurs championship team any year.

95 Hakeem , drexler, horry, cassell, Mario, Kenny

No weaknesses

 

Everyone has a right to their own opinion. But I'm curious what do you use as criteria for the greatest NBA coach?

I want to say before hand I have Duncan in the 4-6 range all time and I have Hakeem in the 2-3 range . I have tremendous respect for Tim as a two way player and his longevity.